"This generation" started in 1948.

by refiners fire 34 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  NeonMadman

  Ezekial does not say "Russia, Poland etc".
  Hal Lindsey says "Russia Poland etc".
  Hal is claiming the Authority of Ezekial for his own speculations.
  This makes him a false prophet,in my opinion,

  Well, yeah, maybe. I think I'd want a bit more evidence than that before we start stoning him to death...

  [8>]

  Now what is that, other than a claim that God caused events to occur in the World because Hal had started writing chapter 6 that week?.

  Pompous and self-important? Sure. False prophet? Still a wannabe. I think to be branded as a false prophet, he would have had to say fairly clearly, "these are God's words," or something similar to that. The incidences you cite are still based upon your interpretation of what he is saying, and he could still easily come back and say that he didn't mean it the way you interpreted it.

  Tom

  "At midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew go out and round up everyone who knows more than they do"
  --Bob Dylan
• 

  refiners fire

  neon.
  In my experience Modern day prophets claiming to speak for God are few and far between.
  Claiming to be a channel to the divine, is a cult hallmark.
  IMO.
  One of the identifiers of a cult.
  However, if we restict the criteria to claiming to speak for "God" then we would have to exclude the Heavens Gate cult as a cult. The leader of that cult controlled his members thru claiming that he was in communication with "Ti", and Ti was in communication with God.
  So the line of communication was 1 step removed, but still enough to control his followers.

  another: a group like 'Church Universal and Triumphant'.
  Elizabeth Prophet who runs the organization, claims to channel communications from "Lanello", and Lanello gets his orders from Saint Germain.Years ago in their theology, Jesus handed the reigns of control over to Saint Germain.
  So Clair prophet is 3 steps removed from "God" and the followers follow. Claire prophet doesnt claim to speak for "God" she claims to speak for Lanello/Germain/ Jesus. A chain of command.
  So when Lindsey used the authority of the "prophets'and the prophets are inspired by God he is just one step removed.
  This is my view of false prophets.

  What about the fact that he makes the prophets say things they dont say?
  Do you reckon God agrees with that??
• 

  LDH

  A quick question.

  I've been trying to remember since the beginning of the thread--

  Wasn't Hal Lindsey's book adapted into a movie of the same name?

  I could SWEAR to GOD I remember being taken to see that at the movie theatres, and if it's the movie I'm thinking it is, what a doomsday plot.

  It further entrenched in my pre-teen mind that the JWs were right, the end of the world was just a few years off.

  Lisa
• 

  Stephanus

  There was a movie about the "Rapture" called Thief in the Night, which had several sequels. Is that what you're thinking of?
• 

  Stephanus

  Now Lindsey is saying this in connection with statements that Russia is "Gog of Magog", and will lead a confederacy including East Germany,
  Czechoslovakia, Poland etc, in a Communist attack upon Israel.
  And he is claiming that this is what EZEKIEL says in the Bible.

  LOL These guys were so sure that Russia was going to attack Israel - then the Soviet Union collapsed and took them completely by surprise! So much for their ability to interpret end times scripture - you'd think that if this is the end times that a little detail like that wouldn't be left out of scripture, wouldn't you?
• 

  Stephanus

  Have you noticed that Jeffrey fudged his figures to get the exact date? Just as the Watchtower makes up the date 607BC, Jeffrey has made a year 365.5 days instead of the more accurate 365.25 days! (If it were 365.5, then every second year would be a leap year) They all have incredible systems for working out the end date, and they're all incredibly wrong.
• 

  NeonMadman

  In my experience Modern day prophets claiming to speak for God are few and far between.
  Claiming to be a channel to the divine, is a cult hallmark.
  IMO.
  One of the identifiers of a cult.
  However, if we restict the criteria to claiming to speak for "God" then we would have to exclude the Heavens Gate cult as a cult. The leader of that cult controlled his members thru claiming that he was in communication with "Ti", and Ti was in communication with God.
  So the line of communication was 1 step removed, but still enough to control his followers.

  Well, the problem is that you are equating apples and oranges here, I never said any groups like Heaven's Gate were not a cult, and maybe for some purposes you could stick Hal Lindsey under that umbrella, too (depending on your definition of a cult - I'd be inclined not to put Lindsey in that class either, since he doesn't have an organized group of followers). It would certainly not be outside the bounds of reason to call him a false teacher.

  But there's a difference between a cult and a false prophet. A false prophet is clearly defined by the scriptures as one who professes to speak for God - who claims to speak God's words - and yet, whose pronouncements do not come to pass. The Watchtower fits this description to a "T". Hal Lindsey, as far as I can see, does not. While he does appear in places to misrepresent the intent of certain scriptures, he does not claim to speak directly for God. Which is not to say that he won't merit disapproval from God for his false teaching; only that he fails to meet the rather narrow test for being called a "false prophet".

  Tom

  "At midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew go out and round up everyone who knows more than they do"
  --Bob Dylan
• 

  artful

  I think maybe you are splitting hairs here NM.

  RF's point of a false prophet is well made. By transferring Ezekiel's authority onto himself (Ezekiel being a prophet of God), Lindsey is extending himself as one God's prophets. Lindsey puts himself in the role of God's prophet. Therefore, when his pronouncements prove false, he becomes a false prophet. Why the splitting of hairs?

  Even the WT doesn't say that they 'speak directly for God' and yet there is no problem pronouncing them as a false prophet (and rightly so).

  cheers
  artful
• 

  refiners fire

  there's a difference between a cult and a false prophet

  Neon.
  Maybe you are right there.
  Maybe, with all my research into Christian prophecy, Ive had a tendancy to lump them all together in my mind as "cults" because of many striking similarities between the arguements they use and the arguements the Witnesses use.
• 

  NeonMadman

  Even the WT doesn't say that they 'speak directly for God' and yet there is no problem pronouncing them as a false prophet (and rightly so).

  Oh, but they do. The 1914 "generation" teaching was presented as "Jehovah's prophetic word through Jesus Christ," and "the Creator's promise." Russell's original calculations were presented as "God's dates, not ours." There are dozens of other quotes that have been presented in other threads in which the Watchtower claims to speak for God. It is only because they make that claim that their predictive failures brand them as a false prophet in the scriptural sense.

  In the Hal Lindsey quote that was cited by refiners fire, Lindsey does not claim prophetic credentials, he attributes the prophetic status to Ezekiel. The fact that he misinterprets Ezekiel does not make him (Lindsey) a false prophet, though it certainly doesn't speak well for him as a Bible teacher.

  Tom

  "At midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew go out and round up everyone who knows more than they do"
  --Bob Dylan