"This generation" started in 1948.

by refiners fire 34 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  artful

  I understand your point Tom, but....

  if a prophet (or interpreter) claims that 'THIS IS the meaning of Ezekiel's prophetic word, or THIS IS Ezekiel's promise' - given that Ezekiel (or any other bible writer) is 'speaking for God', doesn't that amount to the same thing as saying that this is 'God's prophetic word'? And if that is so, then aren't they by extension 'speaking for God'? Unless there is a disclaimer of 'this is my interpretation, or this could mean that...etc' then isn't the interpreter saying that 'this is what God said'?

  Although the WTS does add these disclaimers now, I think that the difference between the WTS and Lindsey is that even with a disclaimer, the WTS adherents are expected to fully except their interpretations (as if from God). Failure to do so would mean the threat of expulsion and subsequent loss of opportunity for salvation. I don't think that Hal Lindsey makes such claims.

  Good points about the WTS by the way

  cheers
  artful
• 

  NeonMadman

  if a prophet (or interpreter) claims that 'THIS IS the meaning of Ezekiel's prophetic word, or THIS IS Ezekiel's promise' - given that Ezekiel (or any other bible writer) is 'speaking for God', doesn't that amount to the same thing as saying that this is 'God's prophetic word'?

  No, I don't think so. Otherwise, every preacher who ever preached a sermon on prophecy would be setting himself up to be labeled a false prophet. I think there needs to be a "presumption of innocence" in this area, in the sense that we should assume that all statements made by anyone about what the Bible means are interpretive, unless the person making the statement makes a positive claim that his statements are from a divine source.

  Everyone who has ever spent any time in Bible study has personal ideas about what the scriptures mean. We shouldn't have to be afraid to express those ideas because it will make us a false prophet if we're wrong. Nor do I think we should have to carefully parse all our words in expressing those thoughts to make sure that we are not implying in some way that our ideas are actually the prophet's. It should be taken as a ground rule that any statement a human being makes about what the scriptures mean is intended to be regarded as his own interpretation, unless a specific claim to the contrary is made.

  Although the WTS does add these disclaimers now, I think that the difference between the WTS and Lindsey is that even with a disclaimer, the WTS adherents are expected to fully except their interpretations (as if from God). Failure to do so would mean the threat of expulsion and subsequent loss of opportunity for salvation.

  You're right about that, and even more to the point is the fact that the Watchtower issues disclaimers at the same time it continues to claim prophetic status. It 'speaks out of both sides of its mouth,' as it were, on this issue. One publication will say, "we are not inspired," while another publication, issued around the same time, labels the F&DS as "the Ezekiel Class," or "the John class." Both messages are promulgated continuously in an effort to maintain prophetic and apostolic authority without taking responsibility for their failures. That, in my opinion, is why their disclaimers are meaningless - they contradict them on an ongoing basis in other contexts.

  Tom

  "At midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew go out and round up everyone who knows more than they do"
  --Bob Dylan
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  lv4fer

  I've read a couple of Hal's books. I don't get the impression that he is a prophet or claims to be one. I got the impression that it was his interpretation and nothing more. The borg claims to be God's mouthpiece and that everyone else is evil. Hal doesn't give me that impression. I don't necessarily agree with all his interpretations. You have to admit that trouble always seems to follow the Jews. I get the feeling it is their punishment for killing God's son Jesus Christ. Remember they wanted his blood to come upon them and their children etc. Pilot washed his hands of Jesus's blood. But that is just my interpretation of things.
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  Larsguy

  This is an interesting concept, but to be fair, it says when the leaves grow tender know that he is NEAR AT THE DOORS.

  Since I also believe that the rebirth of Israel is represented by their nation being born in 1947-1948, it should be noted that this rebirth does not occur until AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION where the Jews would be trampled underfoot in a one-time event before the "end" comes and thus they are allowed to be reborn in Israel. That "great tribulation" of Judea was none other than the HOLOCAUST.

  But considering that, you should note closely Daniel 12 which specifically dates the second coming 45 years after the "end" or after the end of the "gentile times" which ended in 1947 when the partition agreement was signed. With that in mind, a 45-year delay from 1948 until the second coming, that would conflict with a "generation" being merely 40 years. Besides that, the Bible says that generation would not expire until ALL those signs occurred. Thus the specific reference to the rebirth of Israel is simply that he is NEAR AT THE DOORS.

  Considering that, one might consider an alterative view of the length of a "generation" being the normal lifespan of individual and Ps. 90:10 tells us that is 70 to 80 years. In as much as it would be at least 45 years from the end of the gentile times and/or after the great tribulation before the Messiah would arrive, and thus not before 45 years after either 1945 (end of HOLOCAUST/great tribulation) or 1947 (end of gentile rule in Judea), a more correct fulfillment of the "last generation" would be an 80-year period from the time with the FIRST SIGN began, that first sign being not the usual wars heard about but a massive world war where there would be "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom". That world conflict, if we apply to WWI, then the first "signs" would have started in 1914 and that gives us up until 1994 for the Messiah to arrive.

  Interestingly enough, 45 years beyond either 1945 or 1947-48 still ends prior to 1994 (1990-1993), though just barely.

  So there is room for critical interpretation of the "last generation" statement. However, my position would be not to look at this in the vaccuum of this prophecy. Other chronology prophecies in the Bible specify, for instance, the specific year for the second coming if that's the point to be made. Jesus' words about the last generation is just a coordinated reference check-point for limiting the length of the signs beginning with a world war to 1 generation. Thus it's the harmonizing of that statement with other chronology that give us the specific year of the second coming that is the true interest.

  THUS: the year of the second coming can be determined by the the 70-weeks prophecy which requires the Messiah to eat the last supper when he first arrives, thus ending "gift and sacrifice" a second time. We know the Messiah arrived the first time during the 70th week and ended gift and sacrifice by his death which ended the symbolic animal sacrifices. That 70th week began in 455BCE and ended in 36CE with the mid-week Passover occurring in 33CE. It is thus a simple matter to count down 70-week periods of 490 years each to our day to determine when the 70th week occurs during our day. Once that is done we can then calculate the mid-week passover which will give us with a year of the time when the Messiah would arrive.

  Thus 490 x 4 is 1960 years. Add 1960 to 36CE and you get 1996 as the end of the 70th week. Note that 1996 is 2 years beyond the last generation cutoff of 1994. BUT...MID-WEEK passover occurs in 1993, one year before the 1994 cutoff. So when Jesus said that "generation would not pass away" he was cutting it pretty close, just one year to spare! So that's confirmed, the "last generation" ending in 1994 works with the Biblically designated year for the second coming which is by Passover of 1993 but not before Passover of 1992.

  Still, thanks for this post since the establishment of the Jews back to Palestine is a critical event used to determine when the Messiah would arrive. By the way, if you consider Daniel 12 which says: "Happy is he who keeps alert and arrives at the 1335 days" indicating the Messiah would arrive 45 years after the symbolic 1290 days end, which we can end critically when the Jews return to Palestine in 1948, then 45 plus spring of 1948 gives you spring of 1993, the same general time as Passover 1993 when the Messiah would arrive.

  So while the generation limitation does give us a general idea as to when the Messiah would arrive, Daniel is more specific to the year of the second coming being 45 years after the Jews return to Jerusalem, which dates the second coming in 1992-1993 based upon 1947-1948...but, BEFORE 1994, which is 80 years after a world war (1914).

  Thanks, again for your post.

  L.G.
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  butalbee

  See--Larsguy posted--so we will all be saved...For he is the messiah dressed in drag, the Diana Ross of the new system, for he woke up from his drug induced stupor and was transposed into the Jesus Christ Superstar. Amen.