Is he sinning?

by Yvonne 17 Replies latest social relationships

Yvonne

I have a kind of platonic relationship with an Elder JW. He is the most loving, caring and wise person I know. We have never, ever have talked about this love or anything else improper. We just talk on the phone now and then, exchange some emails and once in a while we meet to have coffee and talk. We talk about anything possible and always he always ends up talking religion, because he wants me te be happy, and thinks I shoud be a JW too. But I can't. I would, but it is not just to do it for him is it? I am concerned that the 'relationship'we have might harm him. Is it ok for an elder, married with childeren, to socialize this way with a woman like me? Allthough we never talked about it, he knows I love him deeply and I need to talk to him. I can tell, he cares about me too. Is this sinful? I don't want to make him unhappy...Please can some of you JW's tell me this?
Yvonne
Celia

Not sinful, but dangerous....
How did you get to meet that JW guy ?
And please, never, ever become a JW, just because of a guy !
A married guy, who has children...
Run the other way !
Will Power

The bible says that if you are thinking it, it is the same as doing it.
Frenchy

Yvonne:
The man being a JW is not the issue here. You are emotionally involved with a married man. Even if it goes no further there are consequences to be faced. If you break this up right now there will be some emotional pain. The longer you wait, the more the pain will be. Assuming no one else knows about this, the pain will be limited to the two of you. If it gets out…well others will be adversely affected as well, namely the wife and children.
I don’t say this to you lightly. I have traveled that road myself. In my case we were both married and in the end there were plenty of people hurt. Neither of us INTENDED for others to be hurt but it was inevitable and they hurt just as bad as if we had wanted them to.
You’re on a dead end road. Turn around and find one with an outlet. Best wishes to you.
Hmmm

I agree with the others about running the other way for reasons that have nothing to do with JWs. But to answer your question, yes this COULD cause problems for him. Some elders seem to get away with murder, but just meeting you for coffee could theoretically cost him his position. Do both of you a favor and move on.
Hmmm
ElderFlower

Dear Yvonne,
Thank you for your concern. I agree with everyone on everything they say. However, it seems to me that we are all trying to answer your question without knowing the full story. Of course, it is private, and we should all respect this. I want to clear something up. The Elder's position is the lowest in the congregation. That means he is not just a person who goes to the meetings, but a servant of someone who goes to the meetings. He is not just a publisher, but he is a servant of a publisher. He is not just a ministerial servant, but a servant of a ministerial servant. That makes him a servant of a servant of a servant who serves the whole gathering. It also means that he has responsibilities to the Christian congregation.
The truth is very attractive for many reasons. To mention a few, it gives us the confident hope of everlasting life on this Earth that will be restored to a paradise where we will live alongside other truly happy people.
My first interest in the truth was a girl, and so I started to study. After a while, I realised that we both had different priorities. In fact, I became more active in the truth than she was. That wasn’t the only difference in our priorities. After a little while of studying, I found powerful reasons for believing in the truth about Jehovah God. My happiness didn’t depend on her anymore, and I was able to focus more. Jehovah’s holy spirit was helping me find happiness without a partner before I found it with a partner. One of the most attractive things about another person is if they can be happy whether you are there are not.
In the new system where we will live forever and be truly happy, Jehovah will make sure that all negative things will not come up into the heart. You may feel in love with him now, and those are your own personal feelings, but for the sake of his happiness and yours, it would be a good idea to pursue someone who isn’t married. I would suggest that you had a Bible study soon with a nice spiritual sister. After that, I’m sure you will have convinced yourself of 3 things. #1 that you will find true happiness even in this system of things without him (with someone else). #2 that going out with him could break up his family, would brake his heart, his wife’s heart, his kid’s hearts and because you will see how unhappy he is due to this, it will break your heart. Personally, I don’t want to see anyone unhappy whether or not they are in the truth. And #3 that respecting his position as a shepherd and servant of the Christian flock by choosing this alternative route to true happiness will give you the reason why this will be the best decision you have made so far.
I believe that anyone who in their heart really wants to find true happiness will be given the opportunity whether it is by Jehovah’s Witnesses informing them of things or when there is a resurrection of certain people (who it speaks about in the Bible) who are not in the truth, but will be given a chance to get to know God. It is up to them what they want to choose.
Spiritual people have such love for others that to someone who hasn’t experienced the full extent of the love from the Christian congregation, it may seem as though they have deeper feelings than platonic. This isn’t always the case. However, it is dangerous what he is doing, but he might be feeling under control enough to have a coffee with you and talk about God’s word. He might talk about God’s word so it helps him refrain from falling for you while he is imparting beautiful information about the Bible to you, but most importantly, he is trying to help you gain a more insightful knowledge of the inspired word of God (the Bible).
As I said, I don’t know the whole story, but all I can say about that is I had an experience once where there was this girl who contacted me and she wanted to know more about the Bible. There wasn’t enough time to find a sister to meet with her, and because she lived so far away and was coming down to the city the next day (to go to the museums - being a student), I decided to meet her for lunch. We were in a restaurant and we were talking about the wonderful things in the Bible that if applied would make us stronger people. After this introduction, I encouraged her to study the Bible with a sister who lived closer to her, but her answer was, ‘If she needed to know anything, she would ask me’. Now, she may have thought that saying something like that would be flattering to me (and it was), but it also meant that she wasn’t going to start a Bible study, because for various reasons, I wasn’t going to be able to study with her.
We are encouraged to study with someone of the same gender for the same reason why they have all-girl schools and all-boy schools where the examination marks are generally much higher (less distraction - fact). Also, for any Christian, it would be irresponsible for us to put ourselves in a situation where we know we are going to be ‘lead into temptation’, of which a private home Bible study between a male and a female is one.
You don’t have to answer this question to anyone but yourself, but have you asked him to help you find someone who would be able to start a study with you? He is quite capable of finding you someone within a few days (if not a few hours). This would show him that you have a ‘great’ respect for him and will take the pressure off him (trust me, there is pressure). Also, if you were to go to the same congregation as him, you would meet all sorts of lovely people who will become your friends and who don’t only talk about the Bible. You might even find someone who you are more attracted to (who is single) and you would still be able to talk to ‘him’. It is a matter of your conscience. Please take to heart the fact that there are so many wonderful, spiritual, caring, wise and loving people that you are really spoilt for choice. It takes time to develop a relationship, but by the time you develop a relationship with Jehovah God (which may not take so long), you will have met the perfect guy for you! Just think of it. You could be in a wonderful loving relationship with a guy who you will be able live forever with on a paradise Earth and you won’t have to worry about making someone unhappy.
To answer your question, no, he is not sinning, but please do the right thing before it is too late. Too late could be tomorrow.
May Jehovah, the almighty God bless your understanding of my intentions through these words and help you and the brother have a settled heart in this matter.
With warmest wishes,
ElderFlower
Cherryta

dear Michael,
i'm your pal, you know me, i just left a message toyou
and if i can help other JW's please, i want to say, this site is apostate and many may get confused with it ,as i did. after looking around i discovered some horrible things. mail me or leave me amessaage when you can Michael.
Yvonne

Dear everyone!
I am very very happy with the answers you gave to me. I feel a lot of kindness in your words and I need that very much. Thank you all. You are right in everyting you say, I KNOW I must not lead anyone in temptation and I would really never do a thing like that. But I agree that this is maybe a dangerous thing.
I respect very much the words of Elder Flower, I took me a lot of time to rad your message, because it was very emotional to me. You speak the same way as the Elder I love so much. But please don't think wrong of me. I (maybe falsely) think that love cannot be wrong. One can do wrong things, but the real love, the one from 1 Corinthians 13, as spoken by Paul..Is it so wrong to feel that?
It is my 'friend' who taught me this.
We were colleagues, he was my manager. Everytime there was an argument he citated this words from the bible, and is was just then that I began admiring an loving is friendly, wise, good ways.
WE talked a lot (always in the office, with the door wide open) about spritual things. As I said before, he wants me to be happy and thinks I should be a JW too. Therefore I already undertook a bible study, but I always have a lot of doubts and second thoughts. The strange thing is, that when 'he' tells me the same things I feel completely sure. I evenasked him, if this is not very wrong of me. Because it is the message, and not the messenger that makes the diference.
When we meet for coffee (once in a while, not on a regular basis, and when we mail) it is mostly about things like this.
The answer to my question he gave was: that if my heart was touched by his words, which are not his, but Jehovah's, Jehovah God probably meant it to be that way. He said it is not a shame, even the apostles had all their own ways of speaking and attracted in that way more people. I tell you all this because I am not a wicked person that wants to snatch husbands from other people. I cannot ask him, if my behaviour is sinful. He would deny, because I really think that this person is so good, he maybe wouldn't see any harm in my loving him so much. That is why I wrote in the first place. I don't want to hurt him. Nor his wife, nor his children, nor my husband, nor my daughter.
But knowing that a so wonderful person cares about me, makes me so happy. It is all so confusing. I am very sorry, I am crying a lot and writing like a dummy. Dear Elder Flower, thank you again for your words, and the others too. P.S. Yesterday I was in the Memorial Night, as always, no we are not in the same congregation, but I know he wants me to be there and I feel a little comforted being there. I also have to say that I read in these pages about the words that were to be spoken and the letter that was already published on these pages. It is not true. The speach was beautiful.
Frenchy

Yvonne:
You appear to be a decent person. Your words tell us that this man is aware of your feelings toward him. If his interest was merely in ‘bringing you into the truth’ then he would follow the advice that he would give anyone ELSE in his position: “Let a sister study with her.” That alone tells us that HE is emotionally involved with you as well. His talk about ‘spiritual’ things is a façade which he uses to justify his clandestine meetings and correspondence with you. This is also what you are doing as well.
If he has an affair with you he will be going against what he professes to believe. If it becomes known that he did so, he will be removed from his position (definitely) and there is the possibility of his being disfellowshipped from the congregation. That means that he will be shunned by every witness in the entire world for the rest of his life unless he ‘repents’ and gets re-instated.
If he decides that it’s you that he loves and leaves his family, he will be removed from his position AND disfellowshipped and then shunned by every witness in the entire word…etc. What will you do then? Continue studying and attending meetings? Will he accompany you? Will you meet his wife and kids at the next assembly?
Final thought and then one question to you. This guy knows what he’s doing is wrong. Make no mistake about that. Of course since you’re married as well then you know what you’re doing is wrong also. Why did you ask if HE was sinning rather than ask if YOU were sinning?
Frenchy

Dear ElderFlower:
I wish that ALL elders would view their position in the way that you do. Are you an elder? If you remain on this board you will see that many of those who walked away did so because those elders assigned to protect them were less than loving. I was truly astonished when I first realized that this is perhaps the leading cause of people leaving the organization.
It’s true that many people begin studying because of an interest in a person of the opposite sex who is a witness. It’s also true that a good number of them become witnesses themselves as a result of it. Sad to say, most of the cases that I have known have turned out badly for both parties.
Yvonne’s interest is in the elder with whom she is in love, not in JW doctrine at the moment. Your talk about the new order and such is not what’s on her mind right now and it only serves to obfuscate the real issue here. If you are an elder then you should be seeing this situation for what it really is: This guy is being unfaithful to his wife even if it’s only mentally at this stage. By his actions of leading this lady on, he is encouraging her to be mentally unfaithful to her husband as well. As one of the spiritual leaders (shepherd, overseer) of the congregation under his charge, he is being unfaithful to those who have put their trust in him and to God and Jesus to whom he professes to be accountable.
How long before this degrades into something very carnal? Then what? What will that do to the families involved and what will this do to the congregation? You say, concerning this very imprudent man with very poor judgment: “most importantly, he is trying to help you gain a more insightful knowledge of the inspired word of God (the Bible).” You are putting this lady in further danger by telling her this. Do you really think this is what’s on this guy’s mind? Surely not.
You ask this lady: “have you asked him to help you find someone who would be able to start a study with you?” I say again, this lady is IN LOVE WITH THE MAN. Do you really believe that she is in a position to be able to honestly evaluate her motives for studying? Do you think she could really be objective in considering the information she will be exposed to on a study? Has it occurred to you that she might very well go through the motions in hopes of becoming a witness so that she can have this man, that she might even do so all the while deluding herself into thinking she’s doing it for the right reasons? On what sort of foundation would she be building?
You also state: “To answer your question, no, he is not sinning, but please do the right thing before it is too late.” If he’s not sinning then why the admonishment to do the right thing? I hope that you do not take offense at my comments to you or view them as personal criticism directed toward you. I think that you mean well and it’s good of you to offer this advice and to be concerned about this lady’s spirituality. I have lived a long time, raised three children of my own while as well as three sisters and a brother. I served as an elder for many years and have a broad range of experience in life in general. What this brother is doing is wrong. What this lady is doing is wrong. That doesn’t make them bad people but they should be helped to see what their high emotional state is not permitting them to accept as the reality of the situation.
One final comment: Your friend Cherryta has warned you that this is site is apostate. Most of the posters here are people who have left the organization. There are many disfellowshipped and disassociated persons here. There are also some who are still witnesses such as you and your friend, and there are those that are in great turmoil and undecided as to what to do as well. I have been on this board virtually from its conception. I have met some very arrogant and abusive people but I have also met some very fine people as well. This is a cross-section of people in general with the one commonality of having, to a greater or lesser degree, had experienced the organization. I hope that you stay and share your beliefs and passions with us. I believe that the truth, and ONLY the truth, is able to stand scrutiny. We have the choice of burying our heads in the sands of ignorance and ignore any and all criticism or we can step forward and defend what we believe is right. You have a rare opportunity here as a member of this forum to do this. I hope that you choose to remain.

Is he sinning?

Share this