Pulling the rug out from under the "apostates"

by konceptual99 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    The other problem the WTS, is facing is time in itself.

    The WTS is coming off as a sort religious fraud, a commercialized false prophet.

    Certain past doctrines so adamantly held to are simply failing to be true.

    When a religious organization puts forth a long list of said proclamations and none of those proclamations were eventually proven valid,

    there begins to develop a pretentious weaken self image of what the organization was trying to create around itself.

    The past leaders of this organization had no forethought that the organization's published works right back to C T Russell would be so exposed as

    they are.

    Old C T Russell books were long taken off the shelves and locked away, as well as J Rutherford's books.

    Those works of religious Bullshit and ignorance were not known by JWS of the 1960's onward, but now they are.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    I agree with jgnat, this is just reactionary. And rather than pulling the rug out from under "apostates", it's effectively pulling the rug out from under themselves. These are conversations I've had with my parents. Rather than giving WT any credibility, these points undermine their own authority. Here's my analysis, point by point:

    1 - Wrong expectations. The section in the recent WT, whilst not an apology, is apologist in it's tone and suggests that the WT society has just been doing the right thing by setting expectations. When discussing that mini-article with my mom, I took the approach that I was an idiot to allow them to set expectations for me. I wanted an education, marriage, family, career, but based on their direction, I pushed that aside and did what they advocated because the end was soooo near. This wasted many years in unhappiness in expectation of something that hasn't happened. Finally they admit that those expectations were wrong. I was a fool to follow them then, and I'd be a fool to follow their "expectations" now. They say the end is "near" now? What does "near" even mean to them? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? These are the promises they made to my grandparents when they were all young... now my grandparents are all dead. I can't trust any WT predictions. And any "advice" they give, I'd do well to do the opposite! Mom couldn't disagree with what I was saying.

    2 - Generations. The current teaching along with a reduced emphasis on dates suggests that the WT can easily argue that it is not setting a time limit on things even though it constantly preaches the nearness of the end. But that isn't really a point well established. Rather, it proves that WT teachings are built on a foundation of sand, not rock. Their old generation teaching is still in the Reasoning book and has been changed 3 times since then, with the Reasoning book still not revised. So publishers are still carrying the "old light" from door-to-door. And the entry for "generation" in Insight, directly counter-argues the current WT teaching. And if you go back to older publications like the "Truth" book, that generation teaching was a foundation. The end HAD to come in the 20th century. Now it has eroded to sand. So if there is a point to be made about "generations", it's that any WT teaching that looks like a rock today, gets washed away and replaced with new gibberish that nobody really understands or explains. Certainly, don't get excited about any of the generation teachings because it can easily be replaced in one sentence in an upcoming WT study farticle.

    3 - F&DS definition. The change to the doctrine about who the F&DS are reduces the impact of the growing number of anointed ones. And yet the number of partakers continues to grow. Are those other partakers any less anointed than members of the GB? The only proof any of them give is that they nibble crackers and sip wine one a year with a straight face. And since I knew most of GB 2.0 personally, I can tell my parents that I wouldn't buy a used car from any of them. There is no way to convice me that these men are any channel to god.

    4 - F&DS appointment. The doctrine that Jesus did not appoint the F&DS over his belongings in 1918/19 means that all the false teachings at that time are irrelevant. The FDS is completely irrelevant. I belong to Christ. The head of man is Jesus. Anyone that tries to wedge between Jesus and his servants is a false Christ and a new clergy class. As far as the argument that "God has always had an organization," just take a look at the OT. The kingship and the priesthood were complete failures. Anyone that reads the Scriptures can see that organizations lead away from God. It has always been individuals outside of "organization" that have been the prophets and servants of God. And we need to have a personal relationship, not based on following some "Jehu class". Read the Bible for Christ's sake. As soon as Jehu became king, he went right to calf worship, not worshipping Jehovah.

    Jesus didn't set up a publishing company and build assembly halls. So if you think salvation comes from following a corporation that claims to be a FDS, you can be pretty certain that they would follow the course of the Sanhedrin if Christ were to return to earth. And this is usually where I would attack the current WT policy that elders are to call WT Legal Department FIRST when they hear of a child being molested, when ethically they ought to call the police FIRST. The so-called FDS isn't adequately protecting children, how can we really think that God would entrust them with anything at all.

    5 - 607. Tricky one this as the evidence is overwhelming that it's the wrong date but they have recently published an updated rebuttal which is convincing for those who want to believe it. Which is why I go straight to things like the Noachian flood and show that WT is completely unable to defend their literal interpretation of Scripture.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I agree with the O.P, which just goes to show that the guys who pull the strings at the top, the GB included, know full well that they are selling a crock full of s**t to the R&F.

    If there was even a vestige of being "Captives of a Concept" to steal a phrase, they would not have to resort to such mendacious, underhanded sneaky tactics.

    Anyone who doubts that those at the top know it is all a money making SCAM are naive in the extreme.

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    konceptual99 - Would anyone agree that recent comments and changes to WT doctrine are designed to try and pull the rug out from under long established counter reasoning put forward by those the WT would consider apostates?

    YES!!

    So, why not follow Steve Hassan's advice and be flexible when planting seeds of doubts in JWs? Talking to a JW: "Would you have made the same mistakes as the Watchtower leadership if you were in charge? If not, why continue to blindly follow them?

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • steve2
    steve2

    Well none of this is as new as you imply. These are typical reactionary statements that have long peppered Watchtower publications for most of its close to 140-year history. Russell loved arguing back at those who disagreed with him. Rutherford - a more vicious-minded man than Russell - frequently made snide and sarcastic comments about "opposers", misrepresenting what they were actually saying but appearing to meet their statements head on.

    So, too, the Watchtower periodically includes seemingly "factual" comments that the brothers are simply loyally following Jesus. They then include watered down, if not distorted accounts, of what "opposers (i.e., "apostates") have said and then the Watchtower feebly reacts to it.

    Nothing new, but irritating all the same.

  • cptkirk
    cptkirk

    jgnat: that was a big one for me, learning that what you said is true. they are reactionary not visionary. realizing that they are reacting to xyz in the background and then presenting it as if they had some kind of supernatural information that they are using to pre-empt any given circumstance. i think this organization is headed for a "great depression"....they are all going to sign up on jwn haha. like i said, i even feel bad for them in a way....i say that because "nobody" has the clear cut answers, if there were clear cut answers somewhere, then i would not feel this way. seeing that nobody does have the clear cut answers, it's hard not to empathize to some extent with these guys. unlike some on this board, it is hard for me to believe they actually set out with some sort of ulterior motive to become a powerful publishing company, maybe i'm wrong though.

  • tiki
    tiki

    billy the bethelite (no more) - you said it all. in a nutshell.....ty!

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    The age of information via the inter-net has changed the game for the WTS.

    Doctrines that could only be known about or debated were strictly done so on a person to person basis.

    The inter-net has brought the WTS. doctrines past and present and the organization's own history to the publics eyes and ears.

    40 years ago the WTS. leaders hadn't this problem at all, most of the erroneous bad things concerning doctrines or the actual people running the

    WTS. were hidden away or taken off the shelves and put under lock and key like they were at Bethel HQ.

  • Ding
    Ding

    With all the "failed expectations," changing definitions, and "new light," where is the evidence that the GB speaks for God?

    The more they "humbly" use their own human fallibility as a shield, the more relevant becomes the inquiry, "So why would God want anyone to believe and obey these men without question?"

  • Skbj
    Skbj
    I am encouraged by their opening of a twitter account. It allows us for the first time to message them back. May we all make full use of that.

    Lovely OP, right on point...but also the reactionary v visionary. I must remember this one :)

    However about Twitter, seeing what they have been posting and that the last tweet was almost a month ago I haven't got much faith their attempt to preach to the tweet-o-sphere will work.

    They don't engage in conversation with followers so addressing them on that platform is merely a waste of time IMO I rather concentrate my time helping those inside to know TTaTT.

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