Are homosexuals born that way? The March 15 Watchtower seems to say so.

by matt2414 76 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    The remaining question presents itself, how does something that is genetically created in humans become something that is recognized to be a sin?

    Yes, the WTS can make the argument that it is, thereby keeping it a disfellowshipping offense.

    WTS could argue that people are genetically prone to multiple bad behaviors, such as anger/violence. I remember reading several articles in a Genetics 400 class about the 'felon gene,' i.e., prisoners who have a genetic predisposition to violence. I believe they started the study with the Hatfield and McCoys, really...I'm not joking, but I don't know the present status of the research. Yet, predisposition or not, felonious acts are inexcusable.

    The WTS can make a similar claim related to homosexuality, and a good number of Christian religions make the same argument.

    In sum, being a homosexual is not bad, but performing homosexual acts is. (per them--not me).

    Why would he give homosexuals these strong, innate desires and then expect them not to fulfill them

    They would make the claim that God didn't "create" the genetic predisposition; instead, it is a by-product of genetic degradation due to inherited sin. That places it on par with any run-of-the-mill personal failing/sin.

  • matt2414
    matt2414

    Romans 1: 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

    It's quite obvious to those who approach the Bible without being tainted by prejudice that God created homosexuality, and therefore it is not a sin. As Romans 1:20 says, God's invisible qualities are evident in his human and animal creations. Homosexuality exists in both. In animals it is considered quite natural, and not a sin. No doubt God intended the same for humans. Those who take it upon themselves to judge and declare it a sin are in effect calling God a sinner and the creator of sin.

    This reminds me of when Peter presumpteously assumed certain animals were unclean, in an effort to please God. God scolded him at Act 10:15: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” Unlike that situation, the issue of homosexuality is more serious. The Witnesses, like most homophobes, have destroyed families, lives, leading even some young people to suicide. Their hands drip with innocent blood.

  • irondork
    irondork

    Nice observations Matt. I never thought to use Romans 1:20 in connection with this argument before.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Yes, the WTS can make the argument that it is, thereby keeping it a disfellowshipping offense.

    Thats not quite what my original intent to make.

    The religious theology from the WTS. is that homosexuality is ingrained into mankind from original sin from Adam and Eve.

    This theology states that if you were unfortunate to be born homosexual then all thats for you to do is be celibate,

    do not masturbate and live a lonely unhappy single life. You can still serve Jehovah though and keep in appeasement toward him

    as his dedicated servant through his earthly arrangement of the Watchtower Corporation.

    If HS is a result of original sin, then all human biological imperfections are also products of original sin, on that basis HS

    should be accepted and not of something to be DFed over or even worse creating a deliberate shunning/separation of these people

    from their immediate family members and friends, provoking detrimental emotional instabilities.

  • Quendi
    Quendi

    You’ve summed up the WTS position quite succinctly, Finkelstein. That is what I heard, read, and was told during all my years in the cult. LGBT people must remain celibate or get married to someone of the opposite sex since this is the only arrangement Jehovah will accept. If the choice is celibacy, then there is always the hope that the new order will make a person straight and put an end to his unhappiness.

    In the meantime, you have to listen to your nature being condemned and denounced. Don’t even bother seeking help or understanding from the elders. For every elder who will listen to you with empathy (and there are a few who will), there are a hundred who will not. As I’ve said before, this cult is no place for any LGBT person. To remain in it is to be miserable.

    Quendi

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    And under that guideline is it any probable that most HS eventually leave the JWS religion all together. ??

    Some actually tried to marry thinking that their internal natural desires would go away, they didn't.

    Screwing up the woman they did marry and any off spring they may have created while they were married..

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    If HS is a result of original sin, then all human biological imperfections are also products of original sin, on that basis HS should be accepted

    I have to disagree with that. Their (and the other denominations who use this) logic flows correctly after their flawed premise.

    The Bible clearly indicates that sin-induced behaviors are to be fought, not accepted. (Of course, this works only if you believe the Bible reflects sky-daddy's conclusions) Those who insist on committing gross, sin-induced behaviors (extreme violence, sexual immorality, murder, thievery) must be shunned.

    Employing your logic, society would be proscribed from convicting and incarcertaing violent persons who have the 'felony gene.' Instead, we would be bound to 'accept' them as they are. However, I see a counter-argument that HS impacts only the willing whereas violence harms the unwilling.

    JWs aren't the only use to use this silly stuff. LOL! I was unfriended on facebook by two of my husband's co-workers who are uber-Christians because I support abortion.

    Abortion=murder;

    JT supports abortion=JT supports murder;

    Good Christians don't hang with supporters of murder=JT gets unfriended.

    Screwing up the woman they did marry

    sigh...the collateral damage is tragic. I think I belong in the collateral damage column. : ( ...just coming to terms with that...

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    quote Finkelstein:

    "Some actually tried to marry thinking that their internal natural desires would go away, they didn't. Screwing up the woman they did marry and any off spring they may have created while they were married.." Endquote

    A close gay XJW friend of mine falls into that description. Converted to the religion at a young age, he tried desperately to find the 'cure' the religion promised him. He tells me, he forced himself to look at girls and not boys, prayed like hell for the holy spirit to change him (as the Bible promises), studied hard, made the religion his life etc. By his mid twenties he felt the promised miracle had occurred and Yahweh had blessed his determination etc, etc, etc. He thought he had suppressed his attraction for the same sex, and he felt he could safely look for a "fine" ( a word the religion often uses) young sister to be his wife and to share his life in the present spiritual paradise and the real paradise to come. Sadly, he did not understand what he had really done to himself.

    So, in time he did meet such a 'fine' young sister (though, a bit 'tom-boyish' - i.e.small bust-smile-but he missed the subtle message in that also). He courted her at assemblies and through the distance that often separated them as they followed Society instructions, and eventually won out and they married.

    Almost immediately he found that in the personal side of marriage he was failing. His new wife had normal sexual desire, but he did not. Not to say that he couldn't do "it" as some gay men have found in marriage to a woman, (they eventually had some kids), but simply that he had to wait for his body to 'give' a natural erection to enable sex, rather than being aroused by his wife' 'nakedness. He did love this girl and did everything he could for her - and I feel confident that he was also a good and loving father, I was not in his congregation, but he had that reputation and his kids clearly thought a lot of him. He told me that the hardest thing for him in the marriage, was that in spite of his 'love' for this girl, he found it so hard to have sex, and that created a difference between them. How often, he says, he laid awake at night, with a coldness between himself and his wife, willing himself to have an erection, and it just did not work.

    I believe, that in spite of his personal belief that the HS had changed him, what really happened was that he had suppressed his normal, natural, sexual attraction to males and sublimated that desire into a religious feeling. He told me that his lack of sexual interest toward his wife, created difficulties in the marriage and brought great difficulties to his wife.

    To keep this story short, he is out of the truth, he's divorced, his (adult) kids are somewhat confused about it all. He gave everything he owned to his former wife and walked away with nothing. She's re-married (to an elder-what else?). He's living with a guy for more than 20 years and together they have done well. When I see them together, I think that if they were in the truth (not likely-haha) they would be seen as a great example of a couple.

    Conclusion: Galations 5:16,17 is a crock of sh*t, so young men (or, girls) that are attracted to the same sex - ignore the Bible rubbish and get on with your lives.

  • Justitia Themis
    Justitia Themis

    He told me that the hardest thing for him in the marriage, was that in spite of his 'love' for this girl, he found it so hard to have sex, and that created a difference between them. How often, he says, he laid awake at night, with a coldness between himself and his wife, willing himself to have an erection, and it just did not work.

    I thought I wasn't 'pretty enough.' In hindsight, I realize I was hottie...but I never felt that way.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Where the difference comes into play and distinguished is what social behavior is induced solely upon genetic reproduction and what behavior is induced

    from no biological basis. As it known religion can be apathetically cruel and ignorant.

    In Iran still to this day they capture and arrest homosexuals and kill them by hanging, under Islamic law.

    Why ?

    Human ignorance urged on by ancient religious theology, similar to Christian theology.

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