The ten most embarrassing scriptures for Jehovah's Witnesses

by slimboyfat 95 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Luke 23:43 to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise." Hubby reminded me of this one today. There's a recent article that explains it all away. "Bunch of words" I told him, "Sure sign they are making excuses. It's not my fault that there are passages in the bible that don't suit their beliefs."

    Which reminds me of another verse, which I pulled out when hubby introduced me to the soul-less doctrine of the WTS. "So who was Jesus talkng to on the mountain? Spirits? Ghosts? (Matthew 17:1-3)"

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    2 Corinthians 2:7 so that, on the contrary now, ? YOU ? should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad.

    What happened to this scripture in JW shunning?

  • mP
    mP

    Phizzy:

    mP, Paul did meet Peter who first took the G.N to Gentiles, so Acts says, but it may indeed have all been on his own initiative that he started his preaching, possibly not having met Peter at that point in time ?

    I certainly think Paul himself believed Jesus had commissioned him to preach thus, maybe not at the Damascene Epiphany, but Paul had many mystical experiences, and during one of these no doubt he heard the same voice telling him to preach to the Gentiles.

    No one else heard that voice that time either I bet, all in Pauls head, not real.

    If J.W's believe that Gal 6v8 is "inspired of God" how do they explain their version of Good News ? and more importantly, where is the mandate to preach it, in contradiction of Paul's command ?

    mP:

    I will show the only scriptures from Pauls writings that mention anything remotely close to Jesus. If you know of others please provide them.

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/galatians/2

    But when I saw they were not walking straight according to the truth of the good news, I said to Ce′phas before them all: “If you, though you are a Jew, live as the nations do, and not as Jews do, how is it that you are compelling people of the nations to live according to Jewish practice?”

    ...

    yes, when they came to know the undeserved kindness that was given me, James and Ce′phas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars,

    ...

    I said to Ce′phas before them all: “If you, though you are a Jew, live as the nations do, and not as Jews do, how is it that you are compelling people of the nations to live according to Jewish practice?”

    It seems that Paul is not even aware that Peter is his preferred name. And there you have is all that Paul ever says of Cephas (aka Peter) and James and John.

    Given John was an extremely popular name back then just as it is now, just mentioning the name hardly qualifies as a perfect match.

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/galatians/1

    Then three years later I went up to Jerusalem to visit Ce′phas, and I stayed with him for fifteen days. 19 But I saw no one else of the apostles, only James the brother of the Lord. 20 Now as to the things I am writing ? YOU , look! in the sight of God, I am not lying.

    There are many scholars who question what brother means, does it mean they sahred the same mother and earthly father or is this a reference to brothers like borhters in faith ?

    Feel free to scan your Bibles for all other mentions of Jesus and Christ and all you will find is he died for us and our sins. No mention is ever made of Bethlehem, Mary, Joseph, 12 apostles, other apostles by name, Pilate, Herod, Judas Iscariot, any of the miracles and so on. If you check your historical records you will find there were religious leaders called james and cephas and they were not apostles.

    SO the qustion remains did Paul really know Jesus if he couldnt or didnt mention a single fact of his life ?

  • mP
    mP

    Phizzy:

    No one else heard that voice that time either I bet, all in Pauls head, not real.

    If J.W's believe that Gal 6v8 is "inspired of God" how do they explain their version of Good News ? and more importantly, where is the mandate to preach it, in contradiction of Paul's command ?

    MP:

    YOu might want to check the three records of Pauls conversion... they all say different contradcitory things.

    Now i ask you are these records reliable ?

    How can we trust that Paul really did get a message from Jesus, or was he just making it up, like so many other fakes that we can see on TV today ? Its really strange that Paul knows nothing that just looks really bad. Basically all repeats over and over is Christ, died for us and as you showed good news and thats it. SCriptures appreiated.

    http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/voice.html

    Did the men with Paul hear the voice?
    Yes, they heard the voice.No, they didn't hear the voice.
    Acts 9:7
    And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
    Acts.22:9
    And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
  • mP
    mP

    Phizzy:

    You can check this essay from a scholar who lists many interesting points. Please read it an comment.

    http://www.jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/jenksrev.htm

  • mP
    mP

    PHIZZY:

    If J.W's believe that Gal 6v8 is "inspired of God" how do they explain their version of Good News ? and more importantly, where is the mandate to preach it, in contradiction of Paul's command ?

    MP:

    I put it to you Paul is making it up, just like all the xian religions make up their beliefs most of the time without quoting the bible. Paul has repeated this formula, as he knows nothing about Jesus and only has Jewish tradition and religion to fall back on mixed with Greek philosophy etc.

    THis all of course requires that you fail to list other interesting scriptures where Paul demonstrates some knowledge of Jesus. SO feel free to list and quote away.

  • finallysomepride
    finallysomepride

    bookmarked

  • mP
    mP

    JGNAT

    "So who was Jesus talkng to on the mountain? Spirits? Ghosts? (Matthew 17:1-3)"

    MP:
    Nearly every culture believed Gods lived in the sky and on top of mountains. Zeus, Jupiter, Mt Olympus, Baal and lots of others.

    Holy men are always go up mountains or high places to talk to God. Just ask Mohammad who met Gabriel in a cave on a high hill outside Mecca. Moses met Yahweh on Mt Sinai, and he died on Mt Horeb. We also have Mt zion jehovahs holy mountain and we have Abraham who went up high to sacrifice Isaac to El Shaddai ( wich means god of the mountain). Malchizedek also had a holy mountain and call me nutty but arent pyramids man made mountains ?

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    (Romans 8:14) . . .For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons.

    (Galatians 3:26-29) 26 YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise.

    The WTS/GB acknowledges that 'earthly class' JWs have faith in Christ Jesus and are led by God's spirit, but they do not acknowledge that those JWs are God's adopted sons, Abraham's seed or co-heirs with Christ (see also Gal. 4:1-6).

    (1 John 5:1) . . .Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, and everyone who loves the one that caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one.

    The WTS/GB recognizes that those of the 'earthly class' believe Jesus is the Christ, but they do not recognize that they are born from or begotten by God.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Good thread, slim.

    6. Revelation 20:5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

    This verse is wrong because the Watchtower says so. The rest of the dead are resurrected before the end of the thousand years. How come? Just because the Watchtower says so okay!

    It doesn't say 'resurrected.' It says 'come to life.' There are different interpretations - should it be equated with a second, literal resurrection or should it be taken figuratively ('come to life' = conversion/baptism/saved)? The WTS/GB choose to interpret it as a gradual 'coming to life' by growing to perfection over the 1000 years and becoming free of inherited Adamic sin and death.

    7. 1 Corinthians 16:22 If anyone has no affection for the Lord, let him be accursed. O our Lord, come!

    How come the first century Christians could speak directly to Jesus?

    There's a better one, imho - 2 Cor. 12:8-10. The context clearly shows that the Lord whom Paul was entreating was Jesus Christ.

    8. John 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"

    Would any Witness ever call Jesus "my Lord and my God"?

    You know how JWs get around that one! (John 20:17)

    Regarding Jesus having come in the flesh (1 John 4:2,3), JWs believe he came in the flesh. No conflict there.

    jgnat's Luke 23:43 and 'paradise.' To add: why is this mention of 'paradise' assumed to be earthly when the other instances of 'paradise' in the NT are understood by the WTS/GB as heavenly? (2 Cor. 12:2-4; Rev. 2:7)

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