The ten most embarrassing scriptures for Jehovah's Witnesses

by slimboyfat 95 Replies latest jw friends

  • flipper
    flipper

    How bout this one ? Matthew 24 : 34,35 ? " Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away. " Uh-huh.

    I find it interesting that heaven and earth are STILL here. No sign of Jesus anywhere. And the alleged " generation " that Jehovah's Witnesses taught would still be alive to see the supposed " end " or " Armageddon " - are ALL dead.

    WT Society has a weird way of changing meanings on words as for 134 years they've claimed that a " generation was first 70 to 80 years. Then perhaps 120 years. now the teaching is it's two OVERLAPPING generations since 1914 that will see the alleged " end " or " Armageddon ". Interesting that in most ANY dictionary if you look up the word ' generation " it states it's about 25 to 30 years or the time of birth until child bearing years which makes " one generation ". Can anybody say " WT Society snake oil salesmen " much ? Unbelievable what they get away with. Peace out, mr. Flipper

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Thanks mP, Ann and flipper for the excellent editions.

    Ann what do they say about John 20:28 - humour me! As an apologist I always found it the hardest of the "God" scriptures to deal with.

    jgnat that is a really interesting scripture, epecially in the Coptic version! But I was really trying to stick to verses that have no translational issues surrounding them. The Watchtower neutralises that verse by simply translating it differently. The beauty of the list I am trying to compile is that these verses don't sit right with JW teachings even in their own translation!

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    The JW explanations go,

    1. Jesus also tells Mary that he is ascending to his God so Jesus can't be Almighty God,

    2. Thomas was addressing "my Lord" to Jesus but "my God" to the Father (less common than 3. and too speculative),

    3. Jesus is 'a god' in a relative sense even 'Mighty God,' but ... etc.

    It is an awkward one for the neo-Arian camp, true, but then the Trinitarians have to explain John 20:17 where Jesus himself has a God (point 1.).

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Editions? Jings, crivens. Eh that would be additions...

    Ann it is true JWs have different strategies for dealing with John 20:28, namely that Thomas wasn't talking to Jesus when he said "God", or so what if he was, we believe Jesus is a god in a relative sense anyway.

    But my question is a simpler one: how many JWs would be comfortable calling Jesus "my Lord and my God"? If someone slipped it into a comment at the meeting, say, how would it go down? Why is the language of NT alien to JW discourse to the extent that using it would mark someone out like that?

    By the way I generally avoided Trinitarian-type proof texts in my list because I don't believe the first Christians were Trinitarians or viewed Jesus as equal to God. On the other hand they do seem to have had a more exalted view of Jesus than the Watchtower does which makes some verses such as John 20:28 a bit embarrassing for JWs.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    But my question is a simpler one: how many JWs would be comfortable calling Jesus "my Lord and my God"? If someone slipped it into a comment at the meeting, say, how would it go down? Why is the language of NT alien to JW discourse to the extent that using it would mark someone out like that?

    Oh I seeeee. I was over-thinking it. Well yes, it would set off the apost-alarm - as would any direct entreaty to "our Lord Jesus." I can imagine their faces.

    .
  • Emery
    Emery

    I have actually started on a project similar to this thread with this idea in mind, sorry if this post is a little long. I have scriptures written down according to the different subjects regarding TTATT. Hope these help any having to debate a JW.


    Scriptures Against Works For Salvation (Meeting attendance, field service, grooming, etc.)

    Matthew 6:1 - "Take good care not to practice your righteousness in front of men in order to be observed by them."

    Matthew 23:5 - "Everything they do is done for men to see: they make their phylacteries wide and tassels on their garments long." [Pharisees]

    John 7:24 - " Stop judging by outward appearance but by righteousness."

    Galatians 2:21 "I do not shove aside the undeserved kindness of God; for if righteousness is through law, Christ actually died for nothing."

    Galatians 3:10-11 - " For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law. Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith."

    Galatians 5:4 - "you are parted from Christ, whoever you are that try to be declared righteous by means of law; you have fallen away from his undeserved kindness"

    Galatians 5:22,23 - " But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

    Galatians 6:4-5: " Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, for each one should carry their own load."

    Romans 3:20 - " Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."

    Romans 10:3-4 - "Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes."

    2 Corinthians 10:12- "For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding."


    Scriptures Against Double Standards

    Matthew 23:3 - "So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

    Acts 23:3 - 'Then Paul said to him, "God will strike you, you whitewashed wall! You sit there to judge me according to the law, yet you yourself violate the law by commanding that I be struck!' [UN scandal]


    Scriptures Which Encourage Critical Independent Thinking - Testing Everything

    Proverbs 18:17 - "The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him."

    John 7:51 - " Does our law condemn a man without first hearing him to find out what he has been doing?"

    1 Corinthians 14:29 - " Let two or three people prophesy, and let the others evaluate what is said."

    1 Thessalonians 5:21 - "Test everything. Hold on to what is good."

    2 Thessalonians 2:2 - "Not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come." (1914)

    1 John 4:1 - " Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world."

    Revelation 2:2 - " I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false."


    Scriptures Against Disfellowshipping Practiced by JWs

    Matthew 9:11-13: "I have come to call not the righteous but sinners. (theses were not members in good standing in the Jewish congregation)

    2 Thessalonians 3:14,15 - " Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother."


    Scriptures Against The Watchtower's Stance Toward 'Apostates'

    Proverbs 18:13 - " Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish."

    Proverbs 19:11 - "A person's wisdom yields patience; it is to one's glory to overlook an offense."

    Proverbs 25:21 - "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink."

    Matthew 5:44 - " But I say to you, love your enemies and bless the one who curses you, and do what is beautiful to the one who hates you, and pray over those who take you by force and persecute you. " [Aramaic Bible in Plain English]

    Luke 6:27-28: "But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

    Romans 12:14, 20 - "Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse...On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

    Romans 14: 1, 4 - "Accept among you the man who is weak in the faith, but do not argue him about his personal opinions."

    1 Thessalonians 5:15 - "Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else."

    1 John 4:18 - "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

    James 4:11 - "Do not slander one another and do not judge." [mentally diseased and gangrene comments come to mind]


    Scriptures Supporting All Christians Are God's Sons and Must Be Born Again

    Matthew 12:50 - " For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

    John 3:3 - " Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

    1 John 4:2 - " This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God..."

    1 John 4:15 - " If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God."

    1 John 5:1 - "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well."

  • MinistryOfTruth
    MinistryOfTruth
    Luke 10:7
    New International Version (NIV)

    7 Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.

    This is my alltime favorite

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Let me add to Luke 10:7,

    (Romans 15:20) In this way, indeed, I made it my aim not to declare the good news where Christ had already been named, in order that I might not be building on another man’s foundation;

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Thanks for the verses Emery. I like this one for DFing.

    2 Corinthians 2:6-8 This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him.

    How is that compatible with shunning?

  • Emery
    Emery

    Great scripture slimboyfat!

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