If there is a God . . . (page 7)

still thinking

The last test/accusation of the adversary... that Christ would curse God if He thought God had forsaken Him.

Here's the thing...you don't curse something you don't believe is there. He felt he had been abandoned. His own faith had let him down (My God, my god why have you abandoned me). Nothing to curse, nothing there, he was on his own.

That is why atheists don't hate or curse ANY god...not yours...not anyones. Nothing there. I guess on the Satan scale we are a disappointment, it is only those that believe a god has let them down that curse it.

tec

Untrue, Still. Shown by the fact that many people curse God now, who (say) they do not believe He is there. As this and other threads clearly show. There's plenty of condemnation and cursing of God.

If you feel you are abandoned by someone, you absolutely can curse them. People do it all the time. Be that a god, or a spouse, or a brother, or a parent, or a friend. But Christ LOVED His Father... and no matter his pain, that darkness that would cause him to curse God or anyone else... was not in Him. Light and love and mercy... these were IN Him; these were what came out of Him. Even to the point of his own pain and torture and death.

Peace,

tammy

Dismissing servant

Hi again Tec. I'll try to not get a bit upset.

"The experience shows us that we need not doubt that God has forsaken US either, even though others are causing us pain... because He has not. "

The very fact that Jese cried out that he was forsaken is now an indication that he was not forsaken, even though he believed he was. You know, twisting of scriptures like this can be very provocative for former cult members, just because we have been hearing this so many times.

But, the consequence of this must be that Jesus (The word of Truth) was completley wrong that time. As someone said earlier in this thread...according to the bible was not "just anybody".

still thinking

Untrue, Still. Shown by the fact that many people curse God now, who (say) they do not believe He is there

No...this is YOUR misunderstanding of what people are saying.

NO ONE that does not believe in a god curses it. NO ONE. There is nothing to curse but a concept which can be worthy of disgust.

Only people who believe in a god curse a god. Anything else being discussed about gods is hypothetical to an atheist.

If they (say) they don't believe in a god but do...that is a different story. Many people get angry at the dishonesty of belief before they abandon it altogether. It's a process. It only means they are no longer being deluded by those that sell their gods. The anger is misplaced. It is really aimed at the peddlers of faith and their LIES and manipulation.

Dismissing servant

"

hey Tammy next time you are talking with GOD .. maybe he can tell you how communicate his message better so as not pi$ everyone off.

your pulling out the blame the victim card is pretty lame..

try someting better .. or is that all you got

but I usually avoid reading anything from you.. and I'll most likely continue that trend.. as I don't like being angry"

Just a few points I find interesting.

First: A lot of christian apologist are reasoning in a same way. God is omnipotent and omniscient. He knows everything and he can do anything. But , still HE IS NOT RESPONSABLE, and cannot be blamed for anything.

Second: I also find this reasoning very provocative, at least I did some years ago when I startded debating Christianity/theology. Maybe x-JW's have a low tolerande for BS. But I think those debates are really good, it exposes different kinds of religios belief.

Dismissing servant

"Untrue, Still. Shown by the fact that many people curse God now, who (say) they do not believe He is there."

Oh no..I would not think that you should make this mistake. A non believer can discuss Gud as a concept, a litterary figure. We can diskuss Gatsby the great , King Lear, Prince Hamlet or Sherlock Holmes aswell, without believing that they exist/existed in reality.

clarity

Well lets bring in an expert..........is there a god?

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1418462144024

clarity

still thinking

I think it can go with the teritory Dismissing servant...when I believed I couldn't even grasp the concept that others REALLY didn't. I was so arrogant in my belief that I thought they were just in denial and were angry at god...or didn't understand...or had been tainted by religion...or any other of self rigteous delusion that helped me to continue not facing the truth...that they didn't believe my god existed. I really didn't get that. It's hard to grasp that when you do believe. So you project your belief onto others. Explaining away their non belief as though it is irrelevant. And coming from the basis that you speak the truth, because you have some special knowledge or insight about your god that they don't possess.

Pretty arrogant really.

still thinking

LOL clarity

tec

The very fact that Jese cried out that he was forsaken is now an indication that he was not forsaken, even though he believed he was. You know, twisting of scriptures like this can be very provocative for former cult members, just because we have been hearing this so

many times.

I cannot help that people get upset. I am sorry for it, and I do understand it. Sometimes people here upset me too.

As to the point, we know that He was not forsaken, because He rose, and lives. Whether you believe that is real or not... it is in the account, so it is part of the story that is being discussed.

But, the consequence of this must be that Jesus (The word of Truth) was completley wrong that time. As someone said earlier in this thread...according to the bible was not "just anybody".

In order to have come to be as us, and tested as us, in every way... how could he not be like one of us during his time here? He is certainly not 'just anybody'. But he was tested and tortured and tried and convicted and executed. He remained true to God during all of that, true to the law (of love), and then He rose from the dead, given all authority, including over death itself. He is the Life. None of that sounds like just anybody to me.

NO ONE that does not believe in a god curses it. NO ONE. There is nothing to curse but a concept which can be worthy of disgust.

I am not misunderstanding. You curse 'a concept'. If God was this 'insert attribute here', or if God would not help you, or prevent you from being misled, then you curse him and call him whatever names you deem appropriate. Meaning, you say, that you curse the concept that did not help you or allowed you to be misled. (you in general, not you specifically)

But this was not the point.

You said that Christ could not curse God because by thinking that God had forsaken him, he no longer believed that God existed. This is untrue. You can believe that someone who exists has forsaken YOU, specifically, while still knowing that they exist. Else why in the world would you even ask them... why have you forsaken me? Yet even under this moment of doubt that Christ had, under extreme pain that others had caused him... He did not blame God, or curse God. He did not impugn any bad motive to God. He simply asked... why?

Only people who believe in a god curse a god.

And sometimes after they do that, they turn away and stop believing. Then they're only cursing a 'concept'.

Oh no..I would not think that you should make this mistake. A non believer can discuss Gud as a concept

Absolutely, he can. But this entire spiel started over whether Christ stopped believing in God or not. He never stopped knowing God.

when I believed I couldn't even grasp the concept that others REALLY didn't.

I can totally grasp this concept that others do not believe. I do not even find it remotely hard to grasp.

I was so arrogant in my belief that I thought they were just in denial and were angry at god...or didn't understand...or had been tainted by religion...or any other of self rigteous delusion that helped me to continue not facing the truth...that they didn't believe my god existed.

I believe you.

But it is not what I think.

I really didn't get that. It's hard to grasp that when you do believe.

For some, perhaps.

Hope that helps clear some things up.

Peace,

tammy

If there is a God . . .

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