Many examples in the Bible are given
Ayup, that would be the problem, all right...
Losing my Religion......
by flower 60 Replies latest jw experiences
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Xander
Out of curiosity, for those 'god stepped in and saved me' people...
What proof do you actually have that a divine being intervened in your behalf? I'm assuming you had a problem, prayed, and the problem worked itself out.
How do you know FOR CERTAIN that it wouldn't have worked out anyway?
Person X ceases worshipping the christian god some time ago. If person X wants good fortune, they do a spell. If they then have good fortune (even inprobably good), is it because their spell suceeded?
The terrorist hijackings of Sept 11 were VERY well co-ordinated. You may rest assured the terrorists were praying to Allah as they drove their plane into the buildings. Does the success, against the odds, of their plan indicate that Allah intervened to allow them to succeed?
And what of all the passengers praying to their (mostly Christian) god to save them? He didn't answer their prayers - were all those airliners filled with unfaithful people praying for the wrong thing?
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The problem with 'faith' is that when you have it, anything good that happens you will attribute to having it. It becomes a circular argument.
'God helped me because I have faith'
'How do you know it was God'
'Because I have faith' [8>]
Uhhh...okay
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana -
Bang
Flower, Flower,
Calm down.I'm sick and tired of trying to figure out how I'm supposed to be.
Your to be, that's it.You're here. That's what God's about. It's your Adventure - Life.
He's my companion, but how do I know ? I'm here - simple as that.
So even if I had a shit of a day, guess what - I get some sleep and wake up the next day, maybe have something to eat - it's awesome.If you want to "see life" - well, have a look tomorrow.
You've still got jovy stuff inside your head - pray about that - it'll go. You don't need to be saved now, your free, He hasn't condemned you and neither do I. You will need to be saved from something if you keep up all that 'I'm not good enough stuff'.
You know what to do - the Good thing that helps your fellow man plainly as you see them in need and you are able - the courage to heed the prompting of the Spirit for the good action, the spiritual person isn't judged. Don't entertain strange things about what is right, you already know, so does just about everyone I've ever met - that's the Spirit - there seems like there's exceptions but.
See life - see what happens in your day - all the good and all the bad - that's the Adventure.
Bang
And Xander, "What proof do you actually have that a divine being intervened in your behalf?"
"what the mind hasn't even conceived" Xander.
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flower
I know that some people feel God has stepped in and helped them find their way when they were at their lowest point but I think that is merely a coincidence. Things were going to get better even if you didnt belive. Just like things sometimes get better for people who dont believe and sometimes dont get better for a person with the most faith in the world and they die tragically. God has no part in any of it but if beliving that he does gets you through those tough times then thats wonderful. I never worked for me and I'm not sure how I'm going to get through anymore but I just cant waste anymore of my life trying that approach.
flower
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mouthy
Flower. Sorry to read the hard times your having...Dont fret about weather God is there or not. Just try to cope with every day. You were "upbeat" when you first found out the Borg was not the truth.But now you realize there are lots of differant veiws out there,your not sure "were to go"Just get through your settling in your new apartment.
Keep looking after that sweet little boy of yours( I do hope he is feeling better today)in time ..(after the rough times are over)you will be able to access what you believe.It isnt critical to have it all together.Look at me, A real dodo!! Just remember you are blessed
however you look at it. A clean bed. a job, a wonderful little fellow to care for.& friends who really do care,Look at what is going on over seas. I cant give you answers to WHY! but I think I can say (or I believe) this too will pass ( what your going through). Hang in there sweetie (((((Hugs)))))))Grace -
seven006
Flower,
As I have said many time, you are progressing very well. Once you learn to become dependent on yourself you will find there is little you cannot do. Some people feel the need to thank god for the good things that happen to them in life and blame the devil for the bad. This little practice keeps people from becoming self reliant and discovering the importance of knowing them selves. Self reliance is a tool that religion takes away from people and forces them to use their tools to fix their lives. Their tools are their little books and gods and devils and all the little creatures of the night.
If you do good, it's because you are a good person. If you do something bad, its because you are still learning and the key is to learn from your mistakes. Once you have become total self reliant and you take the time to try and understand yourself you will be a lot happier. Patting yourself on the back for doing well builds up confidence in yourself. Sitting down and analyzing what went wrong when you make a mistake will teach you to avoid those mistakes again.
Simply blaming or praising some mythical creature for your actions in life will never teach you about who you really are. Once you have reached this higher level of conscientiousness by truly realizing who you are it will help you begin to explore your personal spirituality. Spirituality is not religion but rather you finding your personal connection to the elements of the rest of the planet. If that later makes you look at the concept of god in a different manner than so be it.
Keeping an open mind is a huge tool in finding out who you are. Closing your mind and adopting religious interpretations about god, the devil and life on earth will keep you constricted to someone else's guidelines for life. Thinking that we are all in a huge pile of shit because a talking snake told a naked lady to eat a piece of fruit is mentally childish and is a tool to keep those who are afraid to find out who they really are in check. Those who come to a complete understanding of who they are and why they do some of the things they do are the ones who have total control over their own lives. Once you have that, a real sense of peace comes over you. It is your own peace in your own space and your own time. Not some guide lines printed in a thousand year old book that some claim to be given to us by "their"god. There are many books like that and none of them agree on anything. Most people have the religious belief they have mainly because of geography.
I know this is going to piss a lot of people off but I need to say it anyway. This quote was given to me by a very close and wise artist friend of mine when I was searching for who I was. We were discussing religion and she told me she was a spiritual person but very much non religious. It was one of the first steps for me finding out who I was. Here is the quote:
"Religion is good for one thing and one thing only, it keeps stupid people from fucking on park benches."
I love that quote.
Keep searching little sister, you will find your answers once you find yourself.
Dave
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Double Edge
What proof do you actually have that a divine being intervened in your behalf? I'm assuming you had a problem, prayed, and the problem worked itself out.
I hate opening up on things I consider personally sacred, be here goes just one:
I was 21, driving home late at night from working at a ski lodge in the Rocky Mountains..it was very dark, cold, snowing and the road was very icy. The steep little road, with no guardrails, that I was zig zagging down in my VW bug went left as I went straight ahead because my tire couldn't grab the road. I was literally heading over the side that would plunge me down an embankment into a rushing stream, I only had a nano-second as I cried out a terrified "Father"...the car stopped dead in it's tracks, as if it had hit a wall...I went forward, inside the car hitting my head on the windshield...not only had the car completely stopped but the engine turned off. It was very eerie with only the silently falling snow and sound of the stream below - but I felt this presence, not scary but I definitely wasn't alone. Inside my mind I heard a voice say..."you're ok, get out of the car". As I got out, and with my headlights still on, I could see that my front right tire was completely hanging over the edge without support, my left tire has about 2 inches of road left... And there was NOTHING, I mean NOTHING obstructing the downward sloaping path." I let out a heartfelt, vocal "thank you".
Now, to those of you who will doubt, mock, try to explain, WHATEVER... you weren't there, you don't know...but I KNOW.
The terrorist hijackings of Sept 11 were VERY well co-ordinated. You may rest assured the terrorists were praying to Allah as they drove their plane into the buildings. Does the success, against the odds, of their plan indicate that Allah intervened to allow them to succeed?
September 11, showed us all that there is definitely EVIL in this world, and it has power - not supreme power, but power nontheless. What we don't know is the countless times evil has been thwarted and prayers have been answered. There have been reports that several other destructive things were suppose to happened that never did.And what of all the passengers praying to their (mostly Christian) god to save them? He didn't answer their prayers - were all those airliners filled with unfaithful people praying for the wrong thing?
[QUOTE}"Religion is good for one thing and one thing only, it keeps stupid people from fucking on park benches."[/QUOTE]
Lame quote...religion doesn't stop people, it's the municipal codes.
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flower
that proves absolutely nothing but if you believe it more power to you Double Edge. to each his own. i'd never try to get a believer to change or vice versa.
what do you think happened in the case of the person who had the similar experience on the road and prayed not to hit that wall and crashed anyway and lost a child or spouse or something? her kids werent good enough eh? give me a break. or how about the murderer or rapist or drunk driver who had a similar experience driving and said 'oh God please dont let me crash' and crashed someone killing innocent children or other people but walked away unscathed? did god save his life? things like that just happen.
I said a quick prayer last weekend when I saw in my rear view mirror a car speeding towards me and it crashed into me anyway, what do you think makes you so special that your prayer was answered? i'm not being sarcastic just really want to know how you can believe something divine happened when its convenient but when it doesnt happen there is always some excuse.
theres an logical, scientific, reason for everything that happens the rest is just coincidence or a result of something done by us. things just happen..God has nothing to do with it.
flower
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flower
Dave, Thanks as always for your insight.
Grace, Thanks for being so understanding and I know you are right. I need to look at the positives more. I got your package today btw, cant wait to watch the video when I get home.
Thanks everyone else too. Just conversating about such things with people who understand helps.
flower
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borgfree
Flower,
I do not know how much you know about "mouthy" but I can assure you she has been through some very hard times. One time even effected me so much that I was somewhat stumbled for a while, but, I think mouthy would only encourage you, as she has in fact done.
I have had some very hurtful disappointments myself. I am not saying these things to minimize your troubles, but to just say you are not alone.
Along with the troubles I mentioned above, have been some truely outstanding "blessings" I am sure mouthy would agree with me.
No one has the answers to many of the things that happen to us or to others. I think maybe one of the answers would be the scripture (I will make a stab at it from memory) "Satan has demanded to have you, to sift you as wheat"
I could give you many stories like the one Double Edge just gave, but, as I suspected, such stories are not well received.
Hang in there, maybe things will change for the better for you soon.
Borgfree
"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home." Edward R. Murrow