by flower 60 Replies latest jw experiences
I cannot believe that someone as smart as he is could believe in a mythical being
'Wars of religion are essentially two groups of people fighting over who has the best invisible friend'
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana
I cannot believe that someone as smart as he is could believe in a mythical being.
Many scientist, Bible critics, atheist, that have more intellectual abilities, than do many of us.....have turned to believing in God.
Why?....Are they dumber than they seem.....do they WANT someone to have power over their lives.....or are they convinced in their heart, there must be a God who has done all the LOVING things that has NOT been mentioned on this thread.
All the things we enjoy in life, but take for granted.We want to concentrate on what God HASN'T done for US and blame him for the bad.
Who gets the credit for all the marvels in the world when things are good.........no one! Just say there is no God because we don't understand his ways and it's easier I guess.
I do not mean to ridicule ANY who disagree with my ideas although I get as PISSED as yOU guys do at CHRISTIANS.
I can fully understand the reasons for disbelief in many as I have gone through varying ideas on life myself.
I guess what bothers me is people who give up on God so quickly when they start to doubt. Check it out better!!!!!!!!!!
See if you can find out why God allows pain ,misery, death...when he has the power to stop it.
What if you found WHY he is the way he is from a standpoint you never knew before? Has this ever happened to you before.....a re-look at something from another angle, and now you understand differently.
I guess what bothers me is people who give up on God so quickly when they start to doubt. Check it out better!!!!!!!!!!
Gumby I dont know why you would assume that I have given up on God quickly without any research or active searching. What would make you assume that I havent spent months asking questions and trying to find answers? How do you determine what you consider enough time spent searching? Or should we just spend our whole lives ?
Why would you think that I didnt give God credit whenever something good happens? You are making an awful lot of unfair assumptions in my opinion. I've spent much time in prayer thanking God for blessing me with what I felt he had blessed me with.
This thread may seem like its about me not getting what I want from God so I'm just pissed off and giving up on him. But thats not what its about at all. Its about me needing answers to questions. And the only thing that answers those questions is the fact that an active, loving, biblical God does not exist.
flower
This giving god credit for good things and praising him for it is ludicrous. If there is an all powerful being who has created us all why do you christians feel the need to make him look like such an insecure and needy being? Does your god have such a huge ego that he needs all of you to continually give him his strokes? Is your god lesser of a being when it comes to social interaction than you are? Do you really think he needs all this praise or he will feel bad?
As a parent do you make your kids praise you for everything they receive in life? Do you have your kids run around and tell everyone how great and loving you are and that they owe everything in their life to you? Do you demand that they constantly tell you how great you are?
Is your god that insecure that he needs constant reminders that he is indeed god? If he is so wise and powerful why the constant need to be reminded that he is so wise and powerful? Do you think he needs you little people giving him credit for all things good? Do you think he cannot get through a day without his strokes from all you spiritual slaves?
In reality the god of the bible has major issues with identity and is extremely insecure. When he doesn't get his way he kills people. IF you don't constantly tell him how great he is he feels you don't love him. He continually tests you to prove your love for him. If something bad happens in your life you blame the devil and then ask god to help keep the devil away from you.
This is all so childish and petty. If there is a god, I sure hope he is not as psychologically messed up as all you christians make him out to be. Your god seems to have a lot of baggage that he makes you all deal with.
Just ask yourselves a few question, would you treat your own children the way you say your god treats you. Would you threaten their lives if they disobeyed you? Would you force them to give you praise on a constant basis? Would you constantly give them little tests to prove their love for you? If you do not ask your kids to do this for you why do you think god needs it from you? Are you a more secure being than your god?
If there is a god, he probably laughs at what religion has done in there many attempts to interpret who he is. I think the god who is described in the bible needs a good shrink to deal with his self image.
Dave
See if you can find out why God allows pain ,misery, death...when he has the power to stop it.
And there is the problem, in a nutshell. For all the Bible blather, the, fuzzy-wuzzy-God-loves-us-have-faith-you'll-find-peace-at-heart blather of the Bible thumper, there is NO intelligent answer to that. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
I can only believe that if there is a God, IT (as how silly is it to give God a human male characteristic?) is not omnipotent, and simply cannot snap IT's fingers and make everything ok for us. IT certainly is no father figure, no matter how much humans wish for a better father.
Good questions about most people's idea of God, Dave.
Thanks Dave, Excellent point. I would never confuse and stress my son out the way that the biblical God has done us. I know my son loves me although he has rarely voluntarily told me so. I dont need him to because I just know it, and I dont know why the bible God doesnt just know that someone loves him if he can read hearts. Why does that God feel like we owe him so much that we must live as if we are forever in debt? I mean if we kept track of everything we have given our kids from the time they were concieved, financially, emotionally, mentally, physically, in every way, they could never pay us back, but does any good parent remind their child constantly that they are forever in debt to them?
The whole idea of a God creating life and then demanding that those beings worship him and prove everyday how much they love him and tell him constantly that he is good and powerful and thank him for every bite of food they eat and every sunny day is just sick. Why would he do that? Makes no sense and if any one of us had children and treated them that way we would be called cruel.
That is why I can no longer accept the whole concept and in a way i feel its comical that i believed it for so long.
flower
i aint believin nothin that makes no sense class
The whole idea of a God creating life and then demanding that those beings worship him and prove everyday how much they love him and tell him constantly that he is good and powerful and thank him for every bite of food they eat and every sunny day is just sick. Why would he do that? Makes no sense and if any one of us had children and treated them that way we would be called cruel.
I remember exactly when I had that same epiphany, Flower. I was at a point where I was a few months past the Witnesses, and probably theoligicaly where you were about 1 week ago. At a family gathering, we had the prayer before eating.... and whammo... the thought you expressed above hit me with great clarity.
Even though I was not inclined to pray at every turn anymore, I didn't believe for a second that I was any less appreciative of the food and fellowship than the rest of them.
Just to add my two penn'th,
The thread started with a lot of questions asking why life was unhappy if God exists and we pray to Him.
It reminded me of a quote from J F Kennedy, something like "Ask not what my country will do for me, but rather what i can do for my country"
Perhaps we should be asking more what we can do for God and fellowman by our faith and example rather than expecting God to solve our problems
I have never (even in zealous dub days) bought the idea that God will reach down and rescue me. Who am I , that such a One would favour me above others?
I do see all around us evidence(sufficient for me at least} that God created life. Talking to a pregnant workmate today about her experiences just fills me with wonder.
He gave us a life, with a bit of luck threescore years and ten, the rest is down to us.. I am still working on the rest of the Philosophy.
This is exactly my point. Why people need to think there is a god who can blow them up at any second and call it love is beyond me. It is not god (if there is one) who makes these childish male ego demands of people, but rather religions who profess to represent and interpret who god is that do.
The bible was written by man, so was all the rest of religions holy books. It is an absolute way of controlling peoples minds and lives. It is all in benefit of the religion and the governments who say they follow such religious philosophy. They work hand in hnd in the controlling of civilizations. If you look at history as each and almost every civilization went out with their armies to conquer other civilizations one of the very first things they did after conquering that civilization was to send their priests and religious representatives to take over. It is hard to persuade a conquered civilization to give total allegiance to the conquering government. But, If you can convince them of their salvation through their religious philosophy you can use it as a filter to control the people. As in so many cases the early western explorers came in, took over, sent their priest's to set up churches, convert the natives, and then controlled and many times eliminated their civilizations.
Once the people are convinced that the important thing is what happens to them after they die as opposed to what happens to them while they are alive, you own them for their whole life. Having an interpretation of an all powerful god who can destroy those who disobey him is the key to keeping the natives in line. Fear, not love is used to control.
Through out history Christians have been no different then Muslims or any other religiously influenced civilization in the way they have divided and conquered. It's all about control, it's all about power and fear. That is not god, that is not anything having to do with an all wise and loving creator. Those who cling to such archaic philosophy are no smarter than those trusting natives who lost their lives and civilizations to governments who clamed to be tools of their religious interpretations.
You are right, if you treated your kids like the god of the bible treats his so called children you would have your ass thrown in jail. Is that what god really is? Or is that what the interpretation of conquering civilizations and their religions want you to think god is?
Dave
Perhaps we should be asking more what we can do for God and fellowman by our faith and example rather than expecting God to solve our problems
I may be taking your sentence slightly out of context, BluesBrother, but let me just make a point.
If I ask God what I can do for my fellowman, the odds are I'm not going to get an answer. If I do, it will likely be one I imagined came from God because I believed some 2000 year old (or more) words to speak for God.
If I ask myself what I can do for my fellowman, I'll do a little better, as I can extrapolate from my own experience and feelings what my fellowman needs.
If I ask my fellowman what I can do for him, I'll get my best, most informed helpful answer. If my fellowman happens to be half a world away, with very little commonality to me in culture, I won't be interjecting my western thoughts and feelings upon him. (btw, that last is exactly the part of the golden rule that Christians, for the most part, don't think about)
As far as what I can do for God, I don't see that any human in history has recieved an answer to that. Maybe it's not a valid question?
