by BU2B 78 Replies latest jw friends
leaving_quietly: No question. I agree. To an average JW, though, you have to respond to the exact words, which I attempted to do
No worries. Your point is well taken. I just want to make sure that we are all very clear, in particular for the benefit of any lurkers.
Oubliette said: BTW,What the heck is a "balanced consideration" of history?
ADCMS:
"balanced" = you agree with the Watchtower's version of history.
Sticking with the established facts that disagree with the WT version = "unbalanced".
I picked up on that same thing. I think the use of the words "balanced consideration" would have been lost on me a year ago, now it seems so obvious.
Its like in history when we had a "balanced consideration" of the civil war.
Good Lord.
LQ, I feel your pain. It's confusing as heck! The web is tangled! That is why we need all of us cooperating, looking at all angles and from different perspectives. All those old quotes don't lie!
ADCMS,
Thanks for the research and quotes. It's so hard to make sense of the forrest of mirrors that is the WT theology. The dissonance caused is just painful. I really appreciate your posts. They are too the point, and state the facts. You weed out the subterfuge for ones like me.
Oubliette,
This makes me wonder if there is a constant War going on within the WTBTS..
""We benefit from balanced consideration of the history of Jehovah's organization, ... Moreover, we do well to examine our history, learn from it, and plan for the future." - The Watchtower, February 15, 2013, p. 12, para, 18 "
Are there messages being sent, or are the WTBTS just 100% sure that the facts will never be checked?
BU2B,
Awesome. You called it. We cannot expose this enough, IMO. More lurkers and hurting sheep will come here as time goes on.
Again - why do you guys even read the Watchtower ?
Or worry about what is says ?
Read the Bible. The teachings of the WT are not in the Bible.
All this quibbling about dates and chronologies and disputes over words is futile.
The WT Society, the governing body, past or present is not now or ever was a;
"sole channel of communicaton between God and mankind"
That means the doctrine of the "faithful and discreet slave" is a FALSE teaching.
The doctrine of separate "classes" is a FALSE teaching.
The idea you have "special knowledge" that no other Christians, among the 2 billion
other members of other denominations have, and you alone; can "enlighten the world"
is utter nonsense. The doctrines of soul-death, no trinity, no hell-fire were not invented
by Russell or the WT Society. Its a 19th century Adventist copy-cat theology
with chronologies and timelines straight out of the Millerites and Adventists.
So searching Watchtowers and worrying about the latest gibberish
is a massive waste of your life.
"...and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble."
Those are pretty tricky words. In Russell's time, they thought they were living in terrible times and the world couldn't possibly survive beyond 1914. So their interpretation of "an unequaled period of trouble" beginning in 1914 would mean the rapture of WT Bible Students and global mass murder among humankind.
Since that time, WT has rewritten history to say that the world was practically a global paradise of happiness and prosperity before 1914. By that context, "an unequaled period of trouble" would fit their rewrite of history that after WWI, the world became a much more troubled and dangerous place.
But even at that, they're wrong about 1914 being the beginning of a terrible epoch of history. Although WWI and the other wars of the 20th century were bad, the world has not been experiencing "an unequaled period of trouble". There are problems, but the fact that the global population has grown exponentially and the average lifespan is longer than any time in history, what troubles are they specifically talking about? Are they sad about the eradication of polio and measles? Is Watchtower saying that they world was wonderful when controlled by European monarchs controlling global empires by brute force? Do they consider electrical appliances, cars, and indoor plumbing to be tools of the devil? Does the time since 1914 really qualify as "an unequaled period of trouble" in comparison to the 14th century when the little ice age and the black death killed around half of Europes population? How about when Europeans took measels and smallpox to other countries and decimated the local population? Has WT forgotten the terrible wars of the 19th century, including the American Civil War? Did they think that those were the "good old days" when the slaves and the women knew their place? Their claim that 1914 started "an unequaled period of trouble" exposes their complete ignorance of history.
Hey Fred Franz could never admit he caused the 1975 fiasco, he learned from the best spinner- C.T.Russell.
A historian could list endless times worse in scope than the events of 1914 as bad as WW I. Westerners forget about historical events in the rest of the world. Plagues and the Crusades disrupted Europe. I learned that Christian activity halted as 1000 CE approached. Commerce and agriculture stopped bc the world was ending. People were so terrified that the other ley needed a gentle mom as a
y god so Mary worship began, often on the very sites where kind pagan goddesses were worshipped.
Someon wrote a piece in the NYT lamenting the world children would encounter after September 11th. I agreed. Someone my age responded what it was like for my generation, growing up fearing the inevitable nuclear holocaust. Every generation sees it's challenges as the worst ever. When I was a teenager, we were responsible for the end of civilization. Ancient Egyptian lamented their children with the same ferocity. t
The WTBTS also said that " false prophets would not correct themselves", remember that? Does it sound familiar?
1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)
1971 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)
1972 "Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" (Watchtower April 1, 1972, p. 197)
1972 "Does this admission of making mistakes stamp them [Watchtower] as false prophets? Not at all, for false prophets do not admit to making mistakes." (Watchtower, Nov. 1, 1972, p. 644)
leaving_quietly: To enlarge on Billy's and "Shirley's" comments and quoting from the Bible Examiner article that you cite and link to, the time of trouble being referred to is the great tribulation, not the beginning of the trouble that would mark the "last days."
“. . . If the Gentile Times end in 1914, (and there are many other and clearer evidences pointing to the same time) and we are told that it shall be with fury poured out; a time of trouble such as never was before, nor ever shall be; a day of wrath, etc., . . ." (Emphasis mine.) Athough there is no Scripture citation, the obvious reference is to Matthew 24:21, which the NW renders as "great tribulation." The next verse (22) talks about the salvation of the church, the elect, the anointed on earth. With reference to these the Bible Examiner says: how long before does the church escape? . . . * * * "Brethren, the taking by Christ of His Bride, is evidently, one of the first acts in the Judgment; for judgment must begin at the house of God.” This "taking of . . . His Bride" is the rapture that Russell believed in at the time.
The Bible Examiner is referring to 1914 as beginning the Great Tribulation, the time of judgment, the expiration of the Gentile Nations' lease and their eviction--not the beginning of the troublesome "last days."
The Watchtower study article in question is not technically right. It is intentionally deceptive and revisionist without qualification.
