Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

by BU2B 78 Replies latest jw friends

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  DATA-DOG

  Rattigan. What are you smoking? I want some! LOL!!!!!!

  Here is my take on CTR. He was just a guy. He did his best. I cannot judge him as worthy or unworthy of eternal life. If he is in heaven then he is face-palming right now. One thing he had going for him, was that he loved Jesus, and he wasn't all about DF'ing like Rutherford and all the GB since. CTR knew, at least in the beginning, that differing sects of religion have found some truth. He was just writing about what he thought was true, and he was looking for truth everywhere. He just went off the deep end with Pyramidology.

  So quoting these articles is not meant to deride CTR, although I am sure he laughs at himself. The point is that the WTBTS has always held Russle and the Bible students up as early " Jehovah's Witnesses." The truth is that JW's are nothing like the early Bible Students, or Christians from the Bible.

  The problem with the WTBTS is that they are intentionally vague after revising their own history and suppressing information about the very people who came up with their last remaining core doctrine!! Don't you see that?! 1914 is all that is left and it's not a revived, hidden truth! It's a lie! No 1914 = NO 1919!!
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  Oubliette

  Data-dog: The problem with the WTBTS is that they are intentionally vague after revising their own history and suppressing information about the very people who came up with their last remaining core doctrine!! Don't you see that?! 1914 is all that is left and it's not a revived, hidden truth! It's a lie! No 1914 = NO 1919!! - [Emphasis added]

  Pulled from various threads on this subject:

  For all intents and purposes, there are no current teachings/beliefs of JWs that are the same/similar as in Russell's day except these two:

  1. Soul sleep
  2. 1914 is the End of the Gentile Times

  But Russell had a completely different idea of what 1914 was all about than how JWs currently "understand" it. As has been clearly proven countless times in this forum and repeated again in this thread, Russell believed 1914 would be The End culminating in Armageddon, not The Beginning of the End, the meaning of which would be revised at least six times between then and now and culminating in the current "Overlapping Generation" nonsense.

  So essentially there is only one doctrine which Russell taught that is still currently believed by JWs and it isn't even an belief exclusive to them.

  1. Soul Sleep, taken from the Second Adventists, which has two sub-beliefs/doctrines attached:

  • No Hell
  • No Immortality of the Soul, and

  Of the the other, here's a little historical background you may find informative:

  2. Gentile Times ended in 1914 which actually came from:

  • An idea advanced by John Aquila Brown in 1823
  • Expanded upon in the 1830's by a farmer named William Miller
  • Later tweaked by Apollos Hale and Sylvester Bliss, whoever they were
  • Exposed as false in 1840 by John Dowling, whoever he was
  • Reworked by Second Adventists, such as Nelson H. Barbour after 1844
  • Then finally take over by Charles Taze Russell as an end time prophecy, with the Gentile times expected to herald the conclusion of Armageddon, not the beginning of the Last Days as presently taught by JWs.

  So practically EVERYTHING taught in Russell's time has been since discarded except these two basic beliefs, one of which he got from another religion and the other conceived of and then twisted and mangled by a bunch of crackpots all vying one-upsmanship style to prove their superior personal understanding of the incontrovertible Word of God. NOT!

  Of the two beliefs, the evidence is clear that the second is false. And again,what JWs currently teach about it has a completely different meaning than Russell taught.

  Regarding the first belief of Soul Sleep, from our perspective as living human beings, it is completely unverifiable either way. Although, ironically, I think most atheists would agree with this doctrine (minus the resurrection hope angle of course!). In fact, if you really examine it, the JW's idea of death and resurrection is more along the lines of what in Sci-Fi circles would be some form of "suspended animation." Even Satan gets this treatment when he is cast into the abyss and then later released according to the Aid/Insight book explanation of Revelation.

  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  Sources:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/222929/2/Is-there-ANY-JW-belief-doctrine-that-has-remained-the-same-from-start-to-now

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/223020/1/An-Apostate-Twist-Ending
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  DATA-DOG

  Good points! I love threads like this, because the truth can't be repeated too much. So what do the JW's really have?

  1) 1914- Christ's invisible presence.

  2) No " inherent " immortality of the soul/ soul sleep.

  3) No Hell-fire

  NONE of those are original, revived bible truths. The 1914 theory has been revised ad nauseam. CTR revised it as soon as the Elect were not raptured. So belief number 2 cannot be confirmed or denied by anyone living. Number 3 seems correct according to the scriptures. That leaves point number 1. So it's not the last core doctrine. I stand corrected. It is the big one IMO. They will hold on to that as long as they can. The sheeple must truly follow the GB without question. I feel that the herd will be thinned out via DA's and DF'ings and faders.

  Once my " generation" ( lol!!) is gone ( 30-50 ) whether through death, fading, df'ing, or disassociation, then 1914 can be dropped. The GB won't need 1919 anymore. There won't be anyone around who remembers it or understands what it was supposed to be.
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  Terry

  Watchtower articles are like a Rain Dance.

  What is a Rain Dance?

  You want rain and you dance to CAUSE the rain to fall.

  Every day you dance.

  Week after week you dance.

  Month after month you dance.

  Sooner or later it clouds up and you get a sprinkle!

  Now, did the Rain Dance actually BRING the rain?

  The Watchtower always predicts trouble. Is there ever a shortage of trouble?

  So, their predictions are divine, accurate and essential, right?

  No!

  A miraculous prediction cannot be connected to events THAT HAPPEN ANYWAY!
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  reslight2

  BU2B stated:

  This is a lie because the WT actually said this at the time!

  July 15, 1894 WT states,

  First, the WT of that time did not speak for any organization such as the "Jehovah's Witnesses" org. There was no "Jehovah's visible organization" dogma amongst the Bible Students at that time, and everything that Russell stated, especially regard non-essentials such as chronology and time prophecy, was, as he said, his 'own surmissings'. Russell did not believe in any "outward organization" such as that which Rutherford later developed.

  http://www.rlbible.com/ctr/?page_id=2084

  Second, the statement from the July 15, 1894 WT reflects Russell's thoughts before 1904; at that time he had accepted Barbour's conclusion that the end of the Gentile Times would also see the end of the of the time of trouble. There were evidently some amongst the Bible Students who believed that the end of the time of the Gentile Times would see the beginning, not the end, of the time of trouble.

  In 1904, however, Russell did adopt the view that the end of the Gentile Times would see, not the end, but the beginning of the Time of Trouble. Thus, from 1904 to 1914 Russell made many statements to that effect. To the extent that any of the Bible Students agreed with Russell on this, one could say that "they" were indeed declaring that the Gentile Times would end in 1914, at which time they were expecting a time of trouble to come upon the world. Some of the Bible Students, based on Edgar's parallels, thought that time of trouble (Armageddon) would only last for one year, and thus that it would end in 1915; some believed it would last much longer, and various dates were given. Russell presented a lot of differing views in the pages of the WT between 1904 to 1914, and even after 1914. His statement was that 1914 was the last date that could be identified by actual time prophecies; all other dates were dependent on parallels. Russell died in 1916, still believing that the "time of trouble" (Armageddon) had begun in 1916.

  http://www.rlbible.com/ctr/?p=1301

  I am not with the JWs, but I, and many other Bible Students, do believe that the "last days" began in 1799, and that time of trouble upon the world began in 1914. As in Russell's day, however, there are varying opinions on this amongst the Bible Students, especially as related to chronology and time prophecies.
  
  http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/bsllinks/Doctrine.htm

  Christian love,

  Ronald
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  reslight2

  "Decades before 1914, Jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble." -- 2/15/13 Study Edition

  This statement is misleading in that it was not "decades" before that Russell considered that the end of the Gentile Times would bring the time of trouble -- Russell himself did not accept this idea until 1904, just one decade before 1914 had come. Neverthleless, there may have been some others who held to such expectation before 1904.
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  reslight2

  Sorry... I have to disagree. I initially thought the same thing, but had to dig a little and found that The Bible Examiner of 1876 had an article entitled "Gentile Times: When Do They End" that does say the things the article here claims.

  http://ia600307.us.archive.org/27/items/1876BibleExaminer/1876_Bible_Examiner_Russell.pdf

  This article was written in 1876; it was in that same year that Russell accepted Barbour's conclusion that Jesus had returned in 1874, that the time of trouble had already begun since 1874, and that the Gentile Times would end in 1914. The article mentions the time of trouble, but, evidently Russell did not wish to go into the details at that time. In the book, The Three Worlds, it was clearly stated that the time of trouble had already begun in 1874, and that it was to end in 1914. A few years later, Russell rejected the idea that time of trouble had begun in 1874, but still believed that it would begin some time before 1914 and end in 1914. In 1904, Russell rejected the idea that time of trouble was to end in 1914, and accept the idea that the time of trouble was to begin in 1914, and end sometime after 1914.
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  reslight2

  alanv stated:

  The point is Russell and his cronies felt this was the time of trouble that would lead to Armaggeddon. It did not. It had nothing to do with God taking action against the nations. It just turned out to be an extra large war. If it had been God's war, all nations would have ended in destruction, as it was, many nations were not part of the world war, and most of them lived to fight another day. This was not what Russell expected and spoke of at all.

  Actually, Russell was not expecting the kind of Armageddon that the JWs preach at all; to him, Armageddon was a period of time in which several things were to take place; the final phase being the full destruction of Gentile Kingdoms and the abyssing of Satan. Russell, however, separated the destruction of the kingdoms from the people who were part of those kingdoms; he believed that Armageddon was to chastise the people, preparing them for the blessings of God's Kingdom that was to follow. He was not expecting what the JWs believe, that, all of a sudden, millions of people who are without Christ would be eternally destroyed.
  
  World War I apparently was only one spasm of Armageddon; the spasms of trouble continue until mankind has learned the lesson of sin and the vanity that results from sin. -- Psalm 107:23-30; Ecclesiastes 1:2,13-18; 8:19-22.
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  reslight2

  Many world leaders and military officers anticipated a major war starting in Europe prior to 1914. It was a matter of "when", not "if" it would happen.

  I am not sure what this is based on. I learned in college that in 1913, the general consensus of most people was that there was NOT going to be any more wars. ""In 1913 many believed that there would be no more war in Europe. The great powers of the continent were so closely inter-twined economically that the view was widespread that they could no longer have military confrontations." -- Jean Claude Juncker, prime minister of Luxembourg.
  http://gagadaily.com/index.php?showtopic=43585
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  DATA-DOG

  Reslight2,

  Thanks for all that information. It makes things a bit more clear. I wonder if anyone on the writing committee for the WTBTS knows all this? Still they could know exactly all of this, and that is why they chose the statement they put in the WT magazine. They are crafty.

  For the sake of accuracy, would it be fair to say that the WTBTS has never had a consistent teaching about 1914?

  "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus' presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." Watchtower1993 Jan 15 p.5 "