My Final Goodbye

by Lady Lee 216 Replies latest forum announcements

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  problemaddict

  Hey Steve,

  I have a great amount of respect for you and accept your opinion. I do not however agree that we are not a "community". Wether people realize it or not, wether they accept it or not, and wether they participate in it or not, does not make it any less true that the people that come here and help, hurt, support and sometimes tear down one another....are in fact part of a community. Community has common experience more than common interest. People are still allowed to be people.

  As far as hyperbole goes.....so what? I wasn't refferencing the actual eating of flesh and you already know that home slice.

  My only comments on this whole thing have strayed clear of sides, and personal feelings about any one person in particular. I do however know one thing. The guys at Bethel LOVE this stuff, and laugh at it. I am pretty convinced that anything that does that, does not further the cause that any person may or may not have on this board.

  In that sense yes I think the ex-JW community is fractioned at best, cannibalistic at worst, and only has experienced a fraction of what it could for the good of not only those that are already a prt of this community, but who may still become a part.

  I also have to good sense to know that especially on an internet forum, my opinion means a hill of beans. So there it is. Everyone feel the way you want to. Can we just let this whole mess die so we stop bringing joy to the hearts of those who think we are "mentally diseased" already?
• 

  LostInTranslation

  Lady Lee,

  I feel humbled to know you.

  I am confident that your inspiration and insight will continue on where needed most.
• 

  steve2

  Thanks for your response problemaddict. We may have to 'agree to disagree' about whether this forum constitutes a community. Sure many of us here have in common connections of one sort or another with the Watchtower. But one of the reasons we are here is because directly or indirectly we did not toe the organization-line. For the main part, we also have in common a greater preparedness to think things through and we are not prone to 'simply' swallowing the party line (even if our personal situations may render us outwardly compliant within our local kingdom halls). The pressure to be united is strong among us - after all, many of us were raised to see the need for unity at all costs. So I acknowlege it is very hard for (some) posters to conceive of an environment in which statements are more vigorously questioned, as are motives (within posting guidelines of course).

  The guys at Bethel LOVE this stuff, and laugh at it.

  Of course, you are right in this observation. It is akin to the elders "lovingly" telling the congregation members to be careful about airing personal differences to outsiders because "wordly" people would be delighted to see JWs arguing amongst themselves. There is always value in putting ourselves in others' shoes to anticipate how they might "find" our views. On the other hand, knowing how others' could react does not seem a sufficient reason for curbing clear-minded discussion, right?
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  problemaddict

  Hey Steve. Thanks for getting back to me. I am not equating community, with unity of thought OR purpose. I also accept the fact that I have a much more broad definition of community than you do. A community is not just one thing after all. We all (believers, athiests, crab people), feed off ne another in some sense through participation, lurking, advise, shared experiences, and more. If that isn't community......what is?

  Doesn't mean we have to feel or act the same way, but creating an outlet for people to express themselves and see if there is commonality is part of what happens within other communities. I would humbly invite you to consider a broader definition of community, and how you relate to all of the communities you are a part of.

  I don't know if my little statement "curbed clear headed discussion". I haven't been here long, but I'm not much of a boat rocker. Just anew kid. i recognize most of the people here are quite abit older than myself and I defer to the reality each person experiences. I do think there can be an unintended cannibalistic consequence of the ex-JW community, and how strongly people feel abotu a variety of things, that has the guys in Brooklyn twisting their mustaches with glee.

  That alone is not reason to do anything in particular I suppose. Or is it?
• 

  ballistic

  We're a database on here. ;) After I started attending apostfests (the real thing) , I always felt it wasn't real on here,

  and always wished I'd taken the name "ignored one" which was taken by someone else. :)
• 

  mind blown

  Steve2, is english your first language? I do think they way LL worded parts of her post, it would come off the way you took it.

  "To those of you who have sat silently and watched and read over the last few weeks I hope you can look into your conscience and say you did the right thing. That you took a stand. That your moral compass is still working or for some that it has started to work. I wish you well."

  However, in translation so you can understand:

  "those who have kept silent as not to get in the middle, don't be hard on yourself. You did what you felt was right in your heart, and that in itself is taking a stand and being true you ones self......
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  The Quiet One

  Rather than making a patronising 'is english your 1st language' comment to Steve2, perhaps take another look at some quotes from her Op.. "We have learned that if a child is being abused we cannot remainsilent. To do so would make us complicit in the abuse..." "We have the option, of course, of surrounding our conscience with a sort of cocoon of complacency, passively “going along,” shielding our inner feelings from whatever might disturb them. When issues arise, rather than take a stand we can in effect say, “I’ll just sit this one out; others may be affected—even hurt—but I am not.” "..it would seem that the one who can say, “At least I stood for something,” must feel greater satisfaction than the one who rarely stood for anything." "I can no longer remain silent."
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  The Quiet One

  Hope that didn't sound too harsh.. If anything, this kind of exchange of ideas shows how differently ambiguous staments can be understood.
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  steve2

  Mindblown wrote:

  Steve2, is english your first language? I do think they way LL worded parts of her post, it would come off the way you took it.

  However, in my translation so you can understand:

  "those who have kept silent as not to get in the middle, don't be hard on yourself. You did what you felt was right in your heart, and that in itself is taking a stand and being true you ones self....

  What Lady Lee actually wrote:

  To those of you who have sat silently and watched and read over the last few weeks I hope you can look into your conscience and say you did the right thing. That you took a stand. That your moral compass is still working or for some that it has started to work. I wish you well.

  Mindblown not only speaks for Lady Lee, he/she attempts a paraphrase that is perhaps more compassionate than Lady Lee's OP permitted.

  I asked - and will ask again - How come it was fine for Lady Lee to 'sit silently and watch and read over the past few weeks' and no one questioned her or prompted her to look into her conscience and yet she invites those who have done similarly - been silent - to look into their consciences? The subtle hints about 'you took a stand...your moral compass is still working' are phrases commonly used to get people to search their consciences because somehow their act of omission ('silence') is in question.

  I stated that Lady Lee's "Final Goodbye" was pre-loaded as a well-aimed parting shot that milked emotion for all it was worth, equating posters not responding to the AAWA threads as being complicit with those threads. What nonsense! How can she know posters who were "silent" may not have even been on the forum over the weeks of the AAWA fiasco or who chose other threads to read and wouldn't have even known what the AAWA fiasco was all about. Besides, even if posters who read the AAWA threads did not respond, that is their business. Just as Lady Lee had her reasons for silence, so would they. What temerity to ask them to look into their consciences! It is that level of sly judgement that I have objected to.
• 

  *lost*

  Crikey.

  Cannabalistic - lol - we be like them Canaanites now, destined for destruction.

  Can anyone think of a term/label for ..... we be the apostates of the apostates ..... supa apostates. NEPHILIM. lol.

  Steve 2 - I see where your coming from, and I tend to agree with what you stated.

  Why not just say, '' love you all, it's been a pleasure, I'm moving on, thanks for the memories ''

  In my opinion, I agree it is a public slight on Simon, the fact that it was done so openly, not in private, given their long history. In my culture it would be considered very rude and insulting. Like flipping the finger and saying F.U.

  But, this wasn't a rash decision. AAWA was in the planning for months and quite possibly LL was heavily involved with Cedars throughout every step of the planning process. I guess only they will know. Those on the inside know far much more than those on the outside.

  She did take it upon herself to lock a post at Cedars request.

  WT - why do people automatically assume they give a damn about what goes on here. why do people automatically assume this is some kind of embarrassment to JWN and the members here.

  I don't. I think each and every person here who stood up and called wrong doing into question and stood by and supported the victims, going against popular consensus, have shown sterling qualities. The kind of qualities that people in WT land fear.

  Yes fear, why, they don't have control. when you cannot control/bribe/cajole they become unpredicatble and dangerous. they show no fear and the ability endure in the face of adversity.