by Cold Steel 165 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I don't believe animals will have resurrection. Have you ever thought how many chickens are killed for KFC arround the world? Just kidding, but think about what is required for resurrection.
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
I don't think that an animal can come to believe in Christ.
We don't have any idea how expansive the spirit world is or the other worlds the Lord created. But I suspect there's plenty of room for all life.
So, LDS has received this information by revelation? And, it's not in the Bible, right?
Correct. The first century Christians did not have a closed canon of scripture and neither do we. The notion that the Bible is the complete word of God is an old sectarian notion and has no basis in scripture. As long as God reveals new things, we'll have a growing body of scripture.
How can you criticize other religions, like Jehovah's Witnesses, for their beliefs when yours are just as incredibly untenable and based solely on personal opinions?
I'm not criticizing anyone. I'm asking for your opinions. The JWs believe animals have no souls and that when they're dead, they're dead. But that's not in the Bible, so they're guessing. And they're entitled to their opinions, just as you are and just as I am.
How are LDS "apostles" any different than the Watchtower's "governing body"?
Our apostles receive revelation, just as the ancient ones did. This includes visions, dreams, angels, theophanies, prophecy, and so forth. The GB of the Society claim to have the authority, but they have no witnesses to testify of it.
Are your pretend beliefs better than the next guy's pretend beliefs?
Well, if you're asking me, yes. Otherwise, I reckon I wouldn't be what I am. If I believed in Seventh Day Adventist beliefs, I'd be a SDA.
I don't think that an animal can come to believe in Christ.
It may be inborn. Just as our capabilities are retarded in this life, so is the intelligence of animals. People who have had near death experiences report that all life in the spirit world praises God in its own way, even the vegetation.
P.S. Did you HAVE to mention Kentucky Fried Chicken?? I'd give anything for a bucket. Popeye's also is great. (Plugola!)
Cold Steel: you pick apart other people's beliefs yet fail to realize yours are just as baseless. From the outside, your beliefs are just as kooky as the one's you shake your head at in amazement.
I'm not criticizing you, you are free to believe whatever you want to. However, realize that your explanations above are no more logical, and no more provable, than the explanations other religious people offer to "prove" their beliefs. You present your beliefs as fact, then explain your beliefs with the exact same methods that you find fault with in other religions.
And, the words you use in your posts above show you have no evidence, just a deep desire to believe:
My own belief is
Since the Bible doesn't really address
speculation
it's not in the Bible
My own view
I've believed this all my life
apparent
I can only assume
But I suspect
It may be
How are LDS "apostles" any different than the Watchtower's "governing body"?
CS: Our apostles receive revelation, just as the ancient ones did. This includes visions, dreams, angels, theophanies, prophecy, and so forth. The GB of the Society claim to have the authority, but they have no witnesses to testify of it.
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So your argument is that your "apostles" are legitimate because they say they are legitimate? Interesting.
Isn't that like me saying, "if you don't believe what I say, just ask me- and, I'll tell you I'm telling the truth"?
CS: The GB of the Society claim to have the authority, but they have no witnesses to testify of it.
And LDS does? Outside of your church, who are your witnesses?
Shirley...or not...ummm...please look again at my post. Everyone's entitled to their beliefs and I'm not changing that. I'm not being critical of anything except closed minds. It matters not whether people believe in souls or not, or spirits or not. Since there's nothing in the Bible stating whether animals have souls, or spirits, then it becomes an issue for discussion. I can defend my own beliefs as I'm sure that others here can defend their beliefs.
One reason I don't cite LDS sources here is because those sources are not considered authoritative by those on this board. And when I ask questions like the one on animals and souls (intelligences), I'm trying to find out how other people think who don't hold my views.
No one here can prove their point, but their answers are still interesting to me. Why so defensive??
If you have issues regarding my religion, drop me a PM and I'll be happy to discuss it. Discussing it on a JW website at length isn't really appropriate.
Why so defensive??
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Not being defensive.
I just can't agree with someone who casts doubt on other people's beliefs- then turns around and uses the same illogical premise to defend his own beliefs that he just used to undermine the other's. I see no reason to conclude LDS has any more claim to legitimacy than any other religion does, that's all.
"governing body", "apostles"- extraordinary claims with no evidence to back them up- it's all the same.
Christopher Hitchens said; "That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence".
I've had many lengthy discussions with Mormons. Thanks for the offer anyway.
What are we defining as life? The whole idea of a spirit as somehow a necessary distinct item that carries someone's essence and is eternal utterly falls apart when we examine life through a microscope. Individual cells live and die and, like bacteria, can survive beyond the host. Are we pretending that they also have spirits? Will this invisible heavenly realm be populated largely from the very blood cell spirits that (Mormon ) heaven will have determined have no further functional place in the resurrected body ( no blood). If bacteria are somehow to small to have a spirit then at which evolutionary level do spirits turn up, jellyfish, lichen, oak trees, snakes....?
Considering the issue of evolution and Mormon theology that all spirits precede the physical body are you suggesting that spirits in heaven are evolving and that god allocates just enough spirits for each species ( so the dodos were doomed whether the sailors ate them or not) ? The problem doesn't get any better if we start suggesting that god allows certain types of spirits to inhabit multiple species ( a cat spirit in heaven could be in a lion, tiger or domesticated cat for example) because that still struggles with the evolutionary cut off points, where do birdlike dinosaur spirits get the boot and the bird spirits start getting inserted?
Do we let plants have spirits? Do we go as far as Mormon theology does and start ascribing spirits to non living ( according to scientific standards) things like rocks and planets? If you wish Cold Steel we can get a bit further in and discuss what JS really taught about spirit and we can see how incompatible it is with any practical attempt to follow these things through to their logical conclusion.
Sourced from mormonthink.com
LDS definition of spirit as taught in church today
That part of a living being which exists before mortal birth, which dwells in the physical body during mortality, and which exists after death as a separate being until the resurrection. All living things—mankind, animals, and plants—were spirits before any form of life existed upon the earth (Gen. 2:4–5; Moses 3:4–7). The spirit body looks like the physical body (1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15–16; D&C 77:2; D&C 129). Spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure than mortal element or matter (D&C 131:7).
Every person is literally a son or a daughter of God, having been born as a spirit to Heavenly Parents before being born to mortal parents on the earth (Heb. 12:9). Each person on earth has an immortal spirit body in addition to a body of flesh and bone. As sometimes defined in scripture, the spirit and the physical body together constitute the soul (Gen. 2:7;D&C 88:15; Moses 3:7, 9, 19; Abr. 5:7). A spirit can live without a physical body, but the physical body cannot live without the spirit (James 2:26). Physical death is the separation of the spirit from the body. In the resurrection, the spirit is reunited with the same physical body of flesh and bone it possessed as a mortal, with two major differences: they will never be separated again, and the physical body will be immortal and perfected (Alma 11:45; D&C 138:16–17)
I'm an atheist so I'll accept your kind invitation.
There is no spirit realm inhabited by any kind of creature.
There are no souls, angels,demons or gods.
There will be no resurrection.
This life you have right now is the only shot you'll ever have.
This is not a rehearsal for something else.
You're welcome.
Revelation 21:4, talks about wiping out every tear so maybe we just wont care. (I am already feeling there will be no tears when the cat goes.)
