I'll have to read this, but in Greek an "angel of God" is a messenger from God. Paul viewed Jesus as being a messenger from God and believed that he too was received as such.
Bart Ehrman: Paul Viewed Jesus Christ as an Angel.
by Emery 52 Replies latest watchtower bible
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slimboyfat
Crossan thinks Jesus was a Cynic, but I reckon Ehrman is right that Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet rather. If he existed at all that is.
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Band on the Run
If He/he existed at all. Yet to write these words, even as a churchgoing Christian, here one opens oneself up to vicious attack. The LORD Almight God, creator of Heaven and Earth, Prince of Peace, Lord of Lords, Jeshuymyig decreed that all Christians must not read or think. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this thread.
Let us all now proceed to the river and wash any literacy, education, cheap magazine subscriptions out of our collective heads. Alleuia. Bless the Lord.
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JWdaughter
What about "messenger"-is that not the literal word that was translated as angel in some versions? Of course, some would question anything Paul said on principle, but if we accept Paul, should we not then pay attention to the actual words?
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Band on the Run
I think sometimes former Witnesses, myself included, try to figure out the actual Koine Greek and may even read too much. It is so refreshing and shocking to study a variety of sources. Today's "hot" scholar is replaced by someone else. I don't know about others but I've gently confronted profs. and the priests that I know love reading these studies. It makes no sense to me. I know there are no bright lines or clear answers. What I thought was settled often becomes unsettled with time. Their socialization is so different from mine. Add the legal analysis and hypotheticals and I am flying. The world could end and I am so focused and intent that I would not notice.
They won't get into heavy debates about whether one recognized scholar is closer than another. Sometimes they tell me I am too bright and sophsipticated to even be asking them the questions. It shocks them. How does it affect my daily life as I wash dishes, do the laundry? It does not. Does it impact my faith? No. If they say what I want to hear, I will discount it.
Sometimes I just need to discuss this stuff b/c I could not growing up.
What is funny now is that I am no longer geographically near the centers where this work is hotly debated. I go to church. My resolve is to keep my mouth shut b/c I want to have friends. The utter boredom gets to me. Perhaps two people may know these author's names. I am reluctant to claim any insight as my own so I say I read or I once heard something. I paraphrase or repeat word for word what I heard from some important person in the field. It is a narrow field compared to the rest of the world. If a priest is present, the poor person protects me and has to spend twenty minutes explaining to the others. When a priest is not present, God help me. I don't know how to respond. Knowing this stuff is not the essence of briliance. Most of the time I can't figure out why I spend so much money and effort to read these books. I know for certain that I can take off from my other pursuits and present sent them with a prepared document proving that I have the right to say it. What does it matter, though?
I am curious as to how others with an addiction to this literature cope with the results of revealing your knowledge. Of course, I am acutely aware that I have the knowledge of a hobbyist. Sometimes reading such books gives me a rush as though I were mainlining heroin.......
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QC
Strong's 32 aggelos ang'-el-os from aggello; a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:--angel, messenger.
NIV Gal 4:14 "and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself."
ESV "and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus."
AV Lk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel aggelos departed from her.
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Band on the Run
Wow, these verses in isolation demote Jesus big time. They are in isolation, though.
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QC
Jesus doesn't see it that way. He's content with being the " SON of God." It's always been that way.
Our job is to pay attention to details, like YOU pay attention to legal brief facts of a case.
Remember?
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Doug Mason
Paul did not know the accounts traditionally attributed to Mark, Matthew, Luke or John. They were all written after his death. Luke was written some 60 to 90 years after Paul had died.
Secondly, Paul explicitly states that he did not receive any of his teachings from any human source. He got them directly from the Lord, presumably in the form of visions. Thus he did not get his ideas of baptism, Last Supper, substitutionary death, resurrection, Coming, and so on from any person. They are his ideas. His opponents were the Jerusalem party led by James, Jesus' biological brother. The Jerusalem party saw Jesus as being nothing more than a human, with human parents. The birth narratives are highly ingenious creations of imaginitive minds; unfortulately, they did not collaborate and their stories seriously contradict one another.
Thirdly, Mark and Luke were Paul's adherents, and thus followed his lead. The NT Canon was set by Paul's followers, not by James' followers (Ebionites).
Doug
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Doug Mason
Regarding Gal 4:14, has anyone produced the chiastic structure of that passage?
Doug