Should all elders be painted with the same brush?

by Socrateswannabe 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • return of parakeet
    return of parakeet

    Socrates: " I struggle with this. I am not happy with my lot in life. I don't want to be an elder. I don't even want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses."

    As Blondie pointed out, there are two kinds of elders. The blanket statement a poster made about hating elders was, I'm certain, aimed at those elders who are braindead drones of the WTS, the kind who would flap their arms and cluck like chickens if the WTS told them to.

    You, my friend, are not braindead. You're not an elder, and you're not even a dub anymore, even if you do go through the motions.

    "But I choose to stay. How can I make the best of it? I genuinely try to help 'the flock'. "

    I wish you had been an elder in my KH. We could have used some compassion there.

    If you ever decide to physically leave the dubs, the posters on this site will do all we can to help you.

    Good luck to you.

  • Socrateswannabe
    Socrateswannabe

    Thanks to all of you for your responses. I need some time to digest what you've said and may address some of your posts later. I am glad to be part of a community where those who agree as well as those who disagree can have an open exchange. That is a refreshing change from an organization that allows no questioning or dissention, as the WTS. Thank you all.

  • talesin
    talesin

    I read your OP. My own comment on that thread was relating to the fact that we don't want to put elders on a pedestal. The title of elder is not an indicator of intelligence, honesty, or lack thereof. Some are wonderful folk, some are monsters, and there's a whole range of in-between.

    One of the elders on my JC was someone I loved - till the day he died - drank himself to death and died of it at a young age. I felt so sorry for him. He was sweet, kind and smart, but born into the JW life, into an influential family, and just never got 'out'.

    We, here, are supposed to be equal. No class divisions of elders, elderettes, etc. Just equals. Being an elder, or former elder, is not a factor that determines whether one is 'wise', or 'knowledgeable' ......... many of you may very well be, but so are a lot of 'sisters' or former sisters. There's no need for us to fawn over elders on JWN.

    xo

    tal

  • gingerbread
    gingerbread

    Socrates - I thought about your situation during the meeting today (my first Sunday meeting in a few weeks) and I looked around at the elders in attendance. They all looked really TIRED.

    The youngest on the elder body is in his mid - 40's and the oldest is right at 65 ( a life long pioneer & elder). I felt a real sense of pity for them. I look forward to the BOE letters that Atlantis posts here - and I've become aware of the increased responsiblility and pressure put on these guys. It's form after form (in triplicate...) to be read, signed & filed. Old books and letters to be destroyed and instructions for the new ones are put in place. Add to that issues of kingdom hall trusteeship, insurance and upkeep. I'm sure the new doctrinal changes are on their minds - as some WILL question, have doubts or leave.

    Many elders who are good, honest hearted people carry a lot of guilt around because of enforcing organizational directives.

  • Athanasius
    Athanasius

    Socrates--

    In answer to your first question, no.

    However, I really do understand your situation as I was in the same position 30 years ago. I had served as an elder from 1972 to 1984. During those years we saw the liberal reforms of Watchtower Vatican II replaced by the repressive measures of a reactionary GB in 1981. Then in the spring of 1984 I learned TTATT after reading Crisis of Conscience and Apostles of Denial.

    So it was decision time. Do I resign as an elder, fade, and take the chance of losing my JW family and friends? Or do I stay on, keep quiet, but work behind the scenes to help individual JWs, and keep my family? For over six months I chose the latter. But in the Borg there is little an individual can do to change things. Moreover, I hated leading a double life. So in September 1984 I resigned as an elder and began my fade.

    There is a better life beyond the Watchtower. But freedom comes with a price. My 20 year marriage ended in divorce, my daughter told me she hated me for leaving the “truth,” my other JW relatives and friends now treated me as if I’d been DFd. Fortunately time heals much. I found new friends, went back to school and got my degree, reestablished relationships with non-JW relatives, my daughter left the JWs and we reconciled, and I married a wonderful woman.

    While everyone’s situation is different, life is more enjoyable outside the JW curtain.

  • HarryMac
    HarryMac

    @Athanasius:

    Thank you for setting an example of somebody that moved from being an 'elder' to a responsible adult.

    What you've described doesn't sound easy in the slightest.... which is why it's so respectable.

  • T D Joseph
    T D Joseph

    When I felt the way you felt, I was working in the Service Department of India Bethel as Assistant Overseer. I put the question directly to the ZONE OVERSEER when he visited India Branch in 2005. He arranged a special meeting of Branch Committee (5 members together) trying to convince me to the contrary! That was the end of my 15-years Bethel life. They will only go from bad to worse! It has gone too far to the point a u-turn is impossible, typical of ego!

  • Socrateswannabe
    Socrateswannabe

    Elders or JWs in general are no different than the rest of the population. The WTS would like for you to think that they are, but that is false. If we were talking about a hospital rather than a congregation of JWs, you would find good doctors and nurses and you would find bad ones in every hospital you examined. The biggest difference between a JW elder and a healthcare provider is that most healthcare providers have access to the same technology, which continues to get better with time and research. How the doctors choose to use it is still up to them, but the technology always progresses. JW doctrine was bad to begin with and has gone steadily downhill.

    There is a saying that it is a poor workman who blames his tools. However I don't believe that is so when a caring person finds himself in the position of being an elder. As some of you have pointed out, he is ill equipped to provide the kind of help that people really need. Elders are not trained as family counselors or psychologists. We are not even trained to the degree that the clergy are trained in other Christian religions. So if you're not getting what you need from an elder, there are good reasons for that.

    The appointment process is also horribly flawed. A group of local elders, themselves chosen in the same manner, make a recommendation to the Society for an appointment. I have seen elders recommended by local bodies due to merit (or at least what JWs would consider merit), and I have also seen people recommended because of nepotism and a host of other questionable motivations. The basis for the recommendation is always stated as the candidate's measurement in comparison to 1 Timothy Chapter 3 and Titus Chapter 1, but few of us really can live up to those standards and the official line is that a candidate has to measure up within a reasonable degree. JWs pretend that elders are appointed by holy spirit, but even their own literature now states that they no longer believe that elders are appointed directly by holy spirit. The latest explanation is that it was holy spirit that directed the writing of the bible. The bible contains the requirements for eldership. If a man meets those requirements, he is indirectly appointed by holy spirit. So, many unqualified men serve as elders in the congregations.

    Many of you have said that you have had personal experiences with good men who serve or have served as elders. I'm glad to hear that. At least the flock is not being skinned by every elder out there. Other posters, like Pickler, have been hurt too many times by too many uncaring elders to have any good feelings toward the "office" that these men hold. I understand that too. I have seen elders in my own congregation say and do incredibly hurtful and stupid things that caused permanent damage to others. Fortunately my BoE has a coordinator who is a genuinely good man and he has taken the lead in chastising and correcting that kind of ignorant behavior when he hears about it, but in many cases you can't un-ring a bell either.

    I guess I can't really say that I disagree with any of you because you all have points that are valid because of your own experiences. If I understand Blondie's comment correctly, she says that I am complicit in the wrongdoing of the WTS and elders in general because I keep silent. That is something that I think about quite a bit and struggle with. Ideally, anyone enlightened would leave the Org. I have explained my motivations for staying-my wife and children. I can't believe that I'm the only one in this situation. I love my family and I will go down with the ship before I allow myself to appear to them as a traitor. It didn't seem so at the time, but we were all better off when I was just one of those "unbelieving husbands". At least I wasn't living a lie and my family was wishing for a spiritual head but was not suffering terribly from the lack of one.

    So I am here for the duration, unless my family manages to see the light. In my OP I said that I am trying to make the best of it. I do outside reading (including this forum). In shepherding, I use what I have learned from non-JW books and articles. I do not rely solely on the scriptures, most of which I do not believe. The Psalms, Proverbs, a few of the sayings attributed to Jesus in the NT, contain words of comfort and I stick to that. I don't use the majority of the bible when I attempt to help people. Most of it is hurtful and completely counterproductive. Yet I am still ill equipped and in some cases may be doing more harm than good without even knowing it. But I have to try. I am not that old so I have decades ahead of me, and I have to try to do something that will justify, at least to myself, my existence. Since my path is not my own, I have to do the best I can with what I've been given.

    The more I write the more I realize I think I started this topic for the purpose of asking that I not be painted with the same brush as other elders, especially the ones you find so reprehensible. Now I wish I hadn't made this topic so self-centered. I can't imagine that I'm the only one who finds himself in this position, or that I'm the only one who tries to go beyond WTS sanctioned rules to help others. I think there are other brothers in my own congregation who have similar circumstances, and I'm sure there are many more elsewhere.

    Every time I read JWN I learn something. I have learned much from all of you on this topic. Thank you for your help.

  • Pickler
    Pickler

    You are not the only one in your situation Socrates, that's for sure.

    I hope it helps you, to write it out....this forum, exposes us to so many differing points of view.

    Good luck to you (sorry, it's late and I can't think of an alternative to luck!)

  • blondie
    blondie

    It took awhile for my husband to see that leaving was good for his family. If you knew you were on a sinking ship, how hard would you try to get your family off? Or would you stay on and die with them rather than hurt their feelings by kindly showing them the danger. When I left, I left 3 generations of jw family behind. Just my husband came out but I would have left anyway.

    It's time to examine why your family believe by observing what they say and do.

    Would you stand back and watch a molested child and parents being told not to say anything and bring reproach on God and the organization? I hope not, and if it hasn't happened to you as an elder, having to make a decision who to protect.......................now is the time to examine your heart.

    I tried twice to leave, but came back because I had not prepared myself emotionally. Last time, never going back, never going to knowingly be part of any abuse of those in the congregation.

    Love, Blondie

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