For Those who believe the Bible is truly the word of God

by sosoconfused 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Joey Jo-Jo

  My loss of faith went something like this

  Believes in Jehovahs Witnesses

  Lost belief in the JW's but still believes in the word of god

  Bible could not be the word of god, too many religiouns, too many contradictions, must be written by men.

  Can no longer be liberal christian, makes no sense, tried other gods, the same contradictions and belief in dogma

  Now atheist, open to the notion that I can change.

  Read Lost Christianities followed by Gods problem, then misquoting Jesus, then Did Jesus Exist (spoiler: He did, but not Christ)
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  Giordano

  On this issue of what Jesus said or didn’t say about slavery:

  There is no mention of slavery by Jesus......but let’s say he did speak against it. Since nothing was written down when Jesus presented his ideas all anyone in that era had to go by were oral stories about what was said. Those stories then had to be translated into the various languages that the Roman trade routes covered. So let’s say that this oral tradition finds it’s way to a person who is very interested in what Jesus is quoted as saying and he has a scribe who will write it out. Better to have a permanent record then just an oral history Now this guy owns slaves....a lot of slaves. He treats them well and works them hard, breeds them and sells them etc. This is how he makes a good living. This is how a lot of the people he knows makes their living. He reads the transcription and see’s that Jesus did speak out against slavery. No No No he thinks. This must be wrong, he commands the scribe to errase two sentances sure that what Jesus really meant was that slavery was an accepted fact and not evil and treat them good. And then copies of that scroll get passed around and eventually become part of the source material for the Gospels. The rich or anyone with an agenda will have always tweaked the Jesus stories to better fit their culture and traditions so that it represents their interests. So it has been in the OT and the NT. You accept the bible as inspired at your own peril.
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  rawe

  Hi Diest,

  We have no NT manuscripts that date before 150 AD

  The P52 fragment of John is dated to 125 CE. Dr. Wallace claims one newly discovered papyri dates to first century. See: http://www.dts.edu/read/wallace-new-testament-manscript-first-century/

  Cheers,

  -Randy
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  EntirelyPossible

  You summarily dismiss external (historical and archeological) evidences as well as internal consistency and prophetic elements.

  Can you name one specific prophecy that came true?
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  rawe

  Hi EntirelyPossible,

  Can you name one specific prophecy that came true?

  After his election as the 3rd president of the Watchtower Society in January 1942, Nathan Knorr, correctly predicted WWII would end. See the talk: Peace Can It Last? ;-)

  Cheers,

  -Randy
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  Ding

  Can you name one specific prophecy that came true?

  Isaiah 53.

  Daniel 9:25.

  Entire books have been written on these topics. Geisler's book "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist" contains a number of references. Lee Strobel's "The Case for Christ" and "The Case for Faith" are also worth reading if you are interested in the reliability of the Bible and in prophecy.

  Wayne Grudem's "Systematic Theology" is written more for seminary students but it is readable and discusses these topics as well.
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  EntirelyPossible

  Daniel 9:25: "Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.

  What was specific in that and what came true?

  What specifically in Isaiah 53 was predicted and came true?
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  Ding

  The Daniel 9 prophecy indicates the time the Messiah would come. Verse 26 prophesies his untimely death.

  Read through Isaiah 53, which is about the Messiah's rejection and atoning and sacrificial death.
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  EntirelyPossible

  The Daniel 9 prophecy indicates the time the Messiah would come. Verse 26 prophesies his untimely death.

  It doesn't specifically say anything about when Jesus would die. It gives no date, no star configuration, no name, doesn't define what "7 times" are, etc.

  Read through Isaiah 53, which is about the Messiah's rejection and atoning and sacrificial death.

  It doesn't specifically describe Jesus or even name him and, in fact, says several things that specifically do NOT describe Jesus, like having offspring or nations and kings being amazed at him.

  Can you name a prophecy that specifically says something will happen and that specific thing happens? Not something that can be interpreted to mean something, such as giving a meaning to the term "times" when the book itself doesn't do that, but something very specific already written?
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  Ding

  How about Genesis 15:13-16: "Then the LORD told Abram, "You can be sure that your descendants will be strangers in a foreign land, and they will be oppressed as slaves for four hundred years. 14 But I will punish the nation that enslaves them, and in the end they will come away with great wealth. 15 (But you will die in peace, at a ripe old age.) 16 After four generations your descendants will return here to this land, when the sin of the Amorites has run its course."