For Those who believe the Bible is truly the word of God

by sosoconfused 53 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • sir82
    sir82
    How about Genesis 15:13-16: "Then the LORD told Abram, "You can be sure that your descendants will be strangers in a foreign land, and they will be oppressed as slaves for four hundred years. 14 But I will punish the nation that enslaves them, and in the end they will come away with great wealth. 15 (But you will die in peace, at a ripe old age.) 16 After four generations your descendants will return here to this land, when the sin of the Amorites has run its course."

    Well, that one might count if you could prove:

    -- The man Abraham actually lived

    -- He actually did the things attributed to him in the book of Genesis

    -- The recorded words were actually spoken prior to the events they refer to

    -- That Hebrews were slaves in Egypt

    -- That Hebrews left Egypt en masse

    Etc. etc. etc.

    None of which is clearly evident.

    Not to mention that the book of Genesis was written many many centuries after the events it portrays. So of course, if it contains a "prophecy", why wouldn't the writers of it frame its statements so it appears the prophecy came true?

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    How about Genesis 15:13-16

    It doesn't say which nation, all evidence points to the account of Israelites being slaves of the Egyptians as descirbed in the Bible as NOT having happened. That prophecy doesn't give a LOT of specifics, such as what age he would die at, where, which nation would enslave them, how they would get free, etc.

    That, combined with the evidence pointing against something like that having happened and the complete lack of evidence for puts it in the category of "story" rather than "prophecy".

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi E.P.

    You asked for one prophecy. Here is one that is absolutely amazing and clearly attests to the hand of God in scripture.

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=13&article=1790

    Tyre in Prophecy

    by Kyle Butt, M.A.

    Predictive prophecy stands as one of the most viable proofs of the Bible’s divine inspiration. Ezekiel’s prophecy concerning the city of Tyre provides an excellent example of such evidence.

    Ezekiel’s prophetic message is one of the easiest to place in an accurate time frame. In verse 2 of the first chapter, the prophet noted that his visions and prophecies began “in the fifth year of King Johoiachin’s captivity.” The date for this captivity is virtually unanimously accepted as 597 B.C. during the second deportation of citizens from Judea to Babylon, which is documented in detail in 2 Kings 24:10-20. Furthermore, not only is the deportation recorded in the biblical account, but the ancient Chaldean records document it as well (Free and Vos, 1992, p. 194). Since Ezekiel’s visions began five years after the deportation, then a firm date of 592 B.C. can be established for the beginning of his prophecy. The prophet supplies other specific dates such as the seventh year (20:1), the ninth year (24:1), the eleventh year (26:1), and the latest date given as the twenty-seventh year (29:17) [Note: for an outline see Archer, 1974, pp. 368-369].

    Due to the firmly established dating system that Ezekiel chose to use for his prophecy, the date of the prophecy regarding the city of Tyre, found in chapter 26, can be accurately established as the eleventh year after 597, which would be 586 B.C.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    I am informed that these prophecies didn't come true in the Bible.

    This being so that would surely discount the Bible as anything other than just another so called 'holy' book like the quran et al.

    Surely if these are prophecies inspired by a god and the bible is also inspired by him, wouldn't god ensure the writings would record said fulfillment?

    • Joshua said that God would, without fail, drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites, among others (Josh. 3:9-10). But those tribes were not driven out (Josh. 15:63, 17:12-13).
    • Ezekiel said Egypt would be made an uninhabited wasteland for forty years (29:10-14), and Nebuchadnezzar would plunder it (29:19-20). Neither happened.
  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    How about Genesis 15:13-16

    I was of the impression that Abraham came before Moses who is acclaimed as the writer of Genesis. This being the case then the prophecy has no value as it could have been invented well after the event.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    You asked for one prophecy. Here is one that is absolutely amazing and clearly attests to the hand of God in scripture.

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=13&article=1790

    Nope. Ezekiel 26 clearly says Nechabnezzar would destroy Tyre. He laid siege to the city for 13 year and ultimately went home. Tyre was destroyed 200+ years later by the Greeks.

    I am still waiting for a SINGLE specific prophecy in the Bible that came true.....

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    (Ez. 26:1-14,19-21).

    "Several aspects of this prophecy deserve attention and close scrutiny. The prophet predicted: (1) many nations would come against Tyre; (2) the inhabitants of the villages and fields of Tyre would be slain; (3) Nebuchadnezzar would build a siege mound against the city; (4) the city would be broken down and the stones, timber, and soil would be thrown in “the midst of the water;” (5) the city would become a “place for spreading nets;” and (6) the city would never be rebuilt.

    In chronological order, the siege of Nebuchadnezzar took place within a few months of Ezekiel’s prophecy. Josephus, quoting “the records of the Phoenicians,” says that Nebuchadnezzar “besieged Tyre for thirteen years in the days of Ithobal, their king” (AgainstApion, 1.21). The length of the siege was due, in part, to the unusual arrangement of the mainland city and the island city. While the mainland city would have been susceptible to ordinary siege tactics, the island city would have been easily defended against orthodox siege methods (Fleming, p. 45). The historical record suggests that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed the mainland city, but the siege of the island “probably ended with the nominal submission of the city” in which Tyre surrendered “without receiving the hostile army within her walls” (p. 45). The city of Tyre was besieged by Nebuchadnezzar, who did major damage to the mainland as Ezekiel predicted, but the island city remained primarily unaffected.

    It is at this point in the discussion that certain skeptics view Ezekiel’s prophecy as a failed prediction. Farrell Till stated: “Nebuchadnezzar did capture the mainland suburb of Tyre, but he never succeeded in taking the island part, which was the seat of Tyrian grandeur. That being so, it could hardly be said that Nebuchadnezzar wreaked the total havoc on Tyre that Ezekiel vituperatively predicted in the passages cited” (n.d.). Till and others suggest that the prophecies about Tyre’s utter destruction refer to the work of Nebuchadnezzar.

    After a closer look at the text, however, such an interpretation is misguided. Ezekiel began his prophecy by stating that “many nations” would come against Tyre (26:3). Then he proceeded to name Nebuchadnezzar, and stated that “he” would build a siege mound, “he” would slay with the sword, and “he” would do numerous other things (26:7-11). However, in 26:12, the pronoun shifts from the singular “he” to the plural “they.” It is in verse 12 and following that Ezekiel predicts that “they” will lay the stones and building material of Tyre in the “midst of the waters.” The shift in pronouns is of vast significance, since it shifts the subject of the action from Nebuchadnezzar (he) back to the many nations (they). Till and others fail to see this shift and mistakenly apply the utter destruction of Tyre to the efforts of Nebuchadnezzar."

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Vanderhoven, apologetic rambling cut-n-paste jobs about switching context aside, Tyre exists today. The prophecy said Tyre would be destroyed.The prophecy said Nebuchadnezzar would destroy it. Both failed.

    Taking five paragraphs to explain why a failed prophecy isn't failed is very similar to the JW argument about Judas being there for the bread and wine. It's a lot of mental gymnastics to try to make something pretty plainly written mean something else.

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    Verse 10: "His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through." ..Read verses 10-12 again and ask yourself whether it could be the men, horses, wagons and chariots in verse 10 (collectively, as an army) that were the 'they' referred to from verse 12.. Also ask yourself whether Ezekiel could have been a little more clear that there was to be a centuries-long gap between one part of his prophecy and the second part, that is referring to Greece. Such as by starting verse 12.. 'and the nations will do such-and-such a long time afterwards' or at least 'and others will at another time..' etc ?

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    E.P.

    Actually, the site of the old city of Tyre, 25 centuries later remains a bare rock, uninhabited, without even a ruin to mark the spot.

    God's word rocks...excuse the pun.

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