Follow up to my Patterson call (page 2)

NameWithheld

the person's heart compells him to donate he can discreetly

Whatever. After the 100th talk in three months about how poor the congs and the WTBTS finances are, and how can 'you do more to help', and the 30+ page brochure on how to donate all your money/property/401K plans to the WTBTS don't even try and sell us that snake oil about how Jdubs are not forced to contribute. No, no one points a gun at their head, but the guilt trip is laid on pretty damn thick! The last few years I went I recall pleas for money at every service meeting. It was one of the things that turned me off - the transparent constant attention the need to donate money to one of the dozen or more 'funds' that were setup.

NameWithheld

Jehovahs Witnesses do not sell magazines for a corporation

You know what!?? He's right!!! They do not sell mags 'for a corporation'. Now they sell mags for dozens of corporations!!!!

joelbear

Mav is right,

It is more accurate to say that Jehovah's Witnesses personally underwrite a magazine corporation.

My parents pay for all their literature themselves on their fixed income and do not ask for donations when in field service.

I think this is more the case than not.

Joel

anewperson

Which shows they read your previous post. Right now they are head deep in bad publicity.

Elsewhere

This all reminds me of a situation that I was involved in while a MS. A sister who was having financial difficulties went to the elders asking if the congregation could help her out a little - as I recall she wasn't asking for a weekly check, just a one time reasonable amount to get her over a hump.

There I was in this meeting with the sister and the other MSs and Elders. She was to the point of begging. It had to be very hard for her to do this; I know it would be for me.

What did the elders do? They refused to give her any money and told her that she should go to "Caesar" for help (grants, loans, food stamps, etc...)!!! As if she had not already done that (which she had)!

I started to suggest that we all chip in, perhaps have a congregation announcement (anonymous) that a member of the congregation was in need and suggest that donations be made. This did not go over very well... they all turned and gave me some ugly looks and dismissed the whole idea.

That was one of the nails in the coffin.

"As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible" - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928, p. 126
Believe in yourself, not mythology.
<x ><

ThatSucks

MavMan, in his most "infinite wisdom" stated:

This is a very common accusation from silly apostates.

I'd rather be a silly apostate than a stupid witness.

The Watchtower and Awake are very informative.

Indeed. They tell you anything and everything that you need to know to continue your service. Effective marketing ploy.

Most of the donations come from the Witnesses themselves.

No argument there. Only difference there between witnesses and actual businesses is that the businesses actually pay there workers for their time and effort, instead of investing 95% of their earnings (my wife told me this) in a permanent 401k plan that they never can quite cash in.

asked my wife about this and she told me that 95% of the time the witnesses never mentions the donation arrangement.

So, now that you've made a big stink in the past about other witnesses considered in good standing not being able to speak for all of the witnesses in general, suddenly your wife qualifies as a universal spokeswoman for 6 million+ people?

The truth is that it takes money to print and produce the huge amount of publications that Witnesses use and distribute.

Yep.

The point is that no one is forced to donate by passing a little plate from person to person.

Hmmm... Don't recall anyone EVER being forced to donate by passing a little plate from person to person anyway. Are you saying that when you pass by the little box on your way out of the meeting that you are forced to donate? No? Didn't think so. Perhaps you are speaking of coersion to donate by humiliation if you don't donate. This is plausible, although completely applicable to you as well. I mean, just as a fine upstanding baptist would want to further the work of his/her loving church by tithing the tithe, would you not be a fine upstanding true christian by donating to help further the kingdom work? You do want to follow your commandment to preach, do you not? How can this be done without more "food at the proper time(tm)" to propogate to the masses, since your ministry is based on the placement of magazines from door to door?

If the person's heart compells him to donate he can discreetly go to one of the donation boxes at the rear of any Kingdom Hall and donate.

Gee... "if the person't heart compells him..." What an interesting concept. Do you actually think that you are better because you read in a magazine that you should donate (you mentioned compelled hearts, not me) rather than hearing a pastor plead for a donation from the podium?

Am I better because I tell you that you should leave rather than begging you to go away?

metatron

Mavman's comments are typical Watchtower deception.

"Selling" in common language refers to vigorous persuasion
of any kind. If I come up with a new marketing concept, I first
have to "sell" it to the boss. If he's "sold" on the idea,
action will be taken.

As for Witnesses selling for a corporation, you'll find many
older Witnesses refer to the organization's leadership as
"the Society" - as I often do. The Society hates this exposure
but refuses to adopt the reality of the 1st century Christian
congregation - they never used the word "organization" - a
term derived from worldly companies in the 20th century.

They were an "association of brothers", as the Bible says.
Can you understand why this is different from "organization"?

metatron

rhett

It angered me that someone could be a loyal Witness for over 40 years, and then they are totally forgotten by their "brothers" and "sisters" when they are no longer able to sell magazines for the corporation.

That's actually fairly common among cults. Once a person stops being useful to them there's really no need to care about them. Its not like they're going to be able to sell any once they're in a home so why bother wasting their busy time on them.
As for the issue of JW's selling their magazines and other crap, if you'll remember a while back they did in fact sell those very magazines for a set price. The only reason they switched to the "donation" arangement was because they would have had to pay taxes on them if they didn't and they wanted to avoid that. Funny how this wonderful "new light" came at just the right time wouldn't you say? Not only that but even if someone only asks for gets a donation a small percentage of the time they still probably come out ahead anyway. If they can dupe some unsuspecting schmuch into taking their literature (and I use that term in the loosest possible sense) chances are they will probably "donate" more money than they would have paid back when it was mandatory.

Xenu

Rhett:
This was not new light. It was a change to comply with Caeser.

NameWithheld

It was a change to better to comply with Caeser.

This just keeps on getting more and more funny!

'To comply with Ceaser' huh? First off, it's funny I have never meet this Ceaser dude, but that's beside the point. If they were 'complying' with Ceaser, they'd pay their tax like they are supposed to. But no, we can't have that now can we? So we have to 'trick' Ceaser (Think theocratic warfare here) into thinking that he cannot tax JWs since they are a 'non-profit' org (actaully it's a non-prophet org - but what good 'ol Uncle Sam doesn't know won't hurt 'em right? )

Follow up to my Patterson call

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