Follow up to my Patterson call

by Mulan 43 Replies latest jw friends

bluesapphire

"The point is that no one is forced to donate by passing a little plate from person to person. "
Pray do tell exactly how the plate can hurt the person if they don't feed it, MavMan.
bluesapphire

Does anyone remember when they would have this "resolution" that the elders had decided beforehand that they would say, "All in agreement that every publisher should pitch in $60 per publisher for the building of the assembly hall." And all us morons would raise our hands and say "Aiy"
How stupid!
I remember I HATED that. Like someone was actually going to keep their hand down after the elder made the motion and then the other elder seconded it. And then you have the peer pressure to agree because everyone else is.
And MavMan actually thinks this is better than passing the plate.
Sheesh. If MavMan actually ever went into a church instead of spewing off all his non-knowledge that he's acquired by reading the Watchtower and Afakes, he would know that probably only one in five or even less people put money in the plate.
What, does he think some priest is actually going to come over and put a gun to your head if you don't?
Yet I remember when the "donation arrangement" came in but NOT for the Spanish congregations. Those poor bros and sisters still had to put their money in the box that was right there when they were picking up their rags. And they couldn't walk away unless they put something in. Talk about pressure!
And I remember I was shocked when I heard that because I was new and didn't know that there ever was such an arrangement. I thought it had always been a "donation" arrangement.
Especially when you're just a study and you're reading all this BS in the rags about how they never pass the plate like Babylon the Grape. And you're thinking, "Wow, this is great." Only to find out shit like that.
And then you got the "needs" talks where they tell you that the CO needs this or that, etc.
Yet, as someone already pointed out, god forbid someone who is just-a-publisher ever needs $$$.
MavMan, do you really want to defend this one?
Lost Diamond

Mulan,
I'm glad the elders are supporting you and your mother. My father was an Elder until his death a few years ago. Before that they called on him for every little problem in the cong.,and to fill in on talks...they kept him very busy. My mother is not the healthiest person, so she is home-bound a lot. Her friends from the cong. visit her every once in while, but and Elder hasn't made a visit for months! As soon a Dad passed away, it's like Mom was forgotten. They did call when my JW brother let the elders know that Mom had mentioned she had some doubt about the 144,000. In fact, they called her the very next day and I was there to hear the conversation. I had just brought her back from the hospital when they called. After I heard my mother defending herself and her doubts I took the phone from Mom and told the elder exactly what I thought of them. How dare they put more stress on a very ill woman! I had to hang up on him, after I asked him, "since my father died, where have you, as an Elder, been? Why haven't you called my mother all this time, but with something has trivial as this you are quick to call? You have no heart". I worry about what they will do with my Mom. She doesn't need the extra stress!
Mulan

Hi Lost Diamond,
That is so typical isn't it? Keep us informed on how it goes in that situation.
Mom said tonight that she just can't get over how awful this situation is, and that she feels very betrayed. I said "tell me about it. How about 50 years of betrayal? I don't wish that on you." Maybe she is starting to understand.
Marilyn (aka Mulan)
"No one can take advantage of you, without your permission." Ann Landers
AGuest

Greetings all... and dear MavMan... may you have peace!
Uh, Mav, dear? I would like to respond to your comment, if I may. Thank you. You said:
The truth is that it takes money to print and produce the huge amount of publications that Witnesses use and distribute.
You are absolutely correct, it does take money to do so. And yet, have you not heard and did you not read, "To the making of many books there is NO end... and much devotion to them is WEARISOME to the flesh?"
Who, then, is correct: the writer of that piece of wisdom... or the WTBTS in their practice of "print[ing] and produc[ing] the HUGE amounts of publications"...?
May I remind you of the very admonition (commonly misused by the WTBTS with regard to their publications in order to mislead if possible even the chosen ones) to NOT go beyond the things written? The things written where, dear one?
You also said:
The point is that no one is forced to donate by passing a little plate from person to person. If the person's heart compells him to donate he can discreetly go to one of the donation boxes at the rear of any Kingdom Hall and donate.
First, let me say that ones ARE compelled to donate: there are talks and magazines articles designed to do just that. By reaching these poor folks HEARTS... and planting seeds of GUILT... they compel people to do what even my Lord did not require of his disciples... to PAY for the receipt of good news. Whether by publishers or donations... SOMEONE pays for those publications.
In TRUTH, however, if one wishes to DONATE, such donations were to be gathered... and DISTRIBUTED... SOLELY for the purpose of looking after widows and orphans... and the sick, the poor, the hungry and the homeless... in their 'tribulation'... INCLUDING one's own flesh (whether or not you consider any of such ones your 'enemy'!) And ones are not to be blowing a trumpet when giving such 'gifts of mercy', so as to be glorified by men, but are to be DISCREET.
Isaiah 58:6, 7
Matthew 5:43-48
Matthew 19:21
Acts 4:32-35
Acts 6:1, 2
James 1:27
James 2:14-17
Matthew 6:2, 3
Now, I have scripture and verse to back up my assertion of what my Lord himself taught... and the disciples practiced... that the ONLY purpose for donations and the ONLY practice of dissemination was to take care of those in need. Have you scripture to support the [erroneous] practice of collecting money for the purpose of printing materials and distributing them, even if only at cost?
Unfortunatley, you, dear MavMan, have been misled... by the WTBTS... away from the very PURPOSE of donations to be made by true christians. NONE were ever compelled to 'donate' in order to receive information regarding the good news of the Christ, which good news is that by means OF Christ... ANYONE who 'wishes' it can ask for and be granted everlasting life... by means of receiving 'the promised holy spirit.' THAT is the good news about the Christ.
And indeed, IF you have partaken of the 'free gift' of God, and received the promised holy spirit, you RECEIVED it... FREE! Thus, you are to give what YOU received... the good news about the Christ... and if it is granted you to do so... holy spirit... FREE! Period. You cannot charge for it, nor can you ask for a donation for it. Some did try to pay for it, possibly to their detriment:
Acts 19:2
Acts 10:44
Acts 2:33, 38
Acts 8:14-24
Dear Mav... I understand your loyalty, truly I do. I, too, once believed that by being loyal to the "Society", I was being loyal to God. But I was misled, by shepherds who, rather than lead the sheep to their TRUE owner, the Fine Shepherd, have led them astray... to follow after a 'golden calf'... and entity they can SEE (rather than keep their eyes on the things UNSEEN)... which has been set up in PLACE of God, while they await the 'return'... of [Moses].
Just as the Israelites thought Moses was 'delaying', so, too, the leaders of the WTBTS, who have been awaiting my Lord's return since 1914... have considered HIM to be 'delaying' since that time... and made for themselves a 'god' to worship... the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of the Religious Order of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and Kingdom Service... Incorporated.
And in the meantime, rather that go 'releasing'... they have gone about binding upon men 'heavy loads' that they themselves cannot carry, putting God's sheep BACK under a 'Law' that was done away with by means of Christ, teaching them to hate those not like them, rather than love even their enemies... and causing them to close the door of their tender compassions even on their own flesh. And yet, you did not find my Lord to be so.
You have been misled, MavMan... but you do not have to continue to be. If, therefore, YOU want to be 'refreshed', I say to YOU:
Come to the 'water'
Come to the One who can 'refresh' you
Drink from HIS 'cistern'...
As you and ALL of mankind have been invited to do
Your servant, as I am servant to ALL those of Israel, the Household of God, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES, and a slave of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... and a member of His Bride, by means of an anointing with holy spirit, who KEEPS saying to you... and all who are thirsting, wishing and hearing...
Come! Take 'life's water'... free!"
SJ
RedhorseWoman

Well, now that the thread has worked its way back to the original point, I was thinking about the response of the active JWs to my post concerning my mom in the nursing home.
It just occurred to me that they all latched on to the comment about being of no use since she could no longer sell magazines for the WTBTS, and were quite incensed that someone should imply that the Society is a literature-pushing religous publishing company. "We don't SELL magazines," they all chirped!
None of them, however, commented on the fact that my mom (as well as many other longtime faithful Witnesses) was totally ignored by her "brothers" and "sisters", as well as by the "shepherds of the flock" who supposedly have a divine commission from Jehovah Himself to care for the "sheep".
Not ONE of them tried to explain why the elderly publishers are discarded and ignored (until the time comes for the great recruitment talk--AKA funeral service--at the Hall after they have finally died).
Why do you suppose these "loving" Christians would try to avoid responding to this very real problem that has occurred for years and continues to occur on a regular basis throughout the JW world? Could it be that this is something that flies in the face of their claim to be the only true religion by virtue of their great "love" for one another?
AGuest

Dear RHW... peace to you!
You ask:
Could it be that this is something that flies in the face of their claim to be the only true religion by virtue of their great "love" for one another?
Personally, I'm a-thinkin'... yeah, COULD be... among other things... MANY other things...
Peace!
SJ
Reborn2002

AGuest-
Normally I find your posts unnecessarily wordy and pretentious.. but not in this case.
Your comments directed at MavMan were thorough and on-point.
You pointed out the fatal flaws in the WTBTS ways and supplemented your claims with definitive reference.
I find it ironic MavMan has not posted here. Im not in the least bit surprised.
PERSONAL WEBPAGE-
http://www.geocities.com/latinloverchicago/Jason1.html
FREELANCE ARTWORK FOR SALE-
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AGuest

Normally I find your posts unnecessarily wordy and pretentious..
My sincerest apologies for my... ummmm... 'style'. While I do 'own' it, I can only ask that you try not to take it personally, but simply bear with me, as I bear with you... and others. Thank you.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
AMNESIAN

Sometimes you need to go to the top...
Sad---yes, ironic---not! that the one who takes his problem "to the top" and is able to invoke corporate connections and boast the JW brand "legacy" and "pedigree" stands a far greater chance of anyone's giving a ratzazz than does the one who comes bearing nothing but his humble, plaintive appeal. Pity the fool.
And lest I be misunderstood, my comments are in no way meant to cast aspersions on you, Mulan---thank goodness, for your family's sake, that you have the requisite "credentials" to flash in order to elicit the response your circumstance deserves. My intent is to say that your resourcefulness as a daughter is as laudable on your part as the need for it is a disgraceful indictment of an organization claiming to be God's one and only. Blech!
-AMNESIAN

Follow up to my Patterson call

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