"There is a symposium with a talk about "Human Apostates" that is very slanderous and defamatory and has the ex-JW blogosphere up in arms over it."
If a person doesn't fit the description outlined in this talk, the talk isn't referring to you.
Symposium with a talk about "Human Apostates"
by Prime 51 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Londo111
Then this talk describes very few. And if it describes very few who've left the religion, then why even have the talk?
It paints a picture of a Boogeyman that doesn't exist, a Goldstien.
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Gopher
From my experience, the Watchtower is off the mark if they're trying to protect JW's from those who leave the organization. Very few of those are actively trying to convince JW's to leave the organization. The apostates of which I later became aware were actually still in good standing in the organization and merely planted small ideas in a friendly way. After they were DF'd they really never came back to try to find more JW's to persuade.
As Londo said, why even waste time having a talk that describes so few ex-JW's? Because the WTS really wants their members to be very afraid, even of things that hardly even exist. -
The Quiet One
"a third characteristic that identifies humanapostates is that they reject and try to discredit Jehovah’s representatives here on earth." -- So if someone doesn't accept that the Governing Body represent God, and speak against them, they are apostate. http://www.harvestmessenger.com/forum/index.php?topic=1023.0
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The Quiet One
"Apostates profess to be followers of Jesus" -- So according to Prime, if you don't believe in Jesus or say that you do, you're not apostate! (go tell your family the good news) http://www.harvestmessenger.com/forum/index.php?topic=1023.0
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The Quiet One
"Apostates claim to serve God, but reject his representatives."-- So if you dare to change religion/belief system and tell others about it, you're apostate. http://www.harvestmessenger.com/forum/index.php?topic=1023.0
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The Quiet One
And once the label is applied they can say.."With good reason the Bible then tells us to avoid apostates, just as we would avoid a person who was infected with a deadly contagious disease" http://www.harvestmessenger.com/forum/index.php?topic=1023.0
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losingit
Prime, if you've watched the video made by Stephanie in response to the talk you will then understand why any exJW would be offended. I do believe it is possible to understand another person's point of view and be empathetic. You should try it some time.
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Londo111
Why don’t they say, “We are only referring to ones who meet this description, not all apostates”?
Instead they say: Human apostates are Satan’s helpers who imitate Satan, unruly, Satan’s seed, antichrist. Why don’t they say, “Some are this way, not all?”
For instance, in the talk transcript says, “MOST are not content to simply leave the faith they once viewed as true. They want to take others with them. Rather than going out and making their own disciples, many apostates seek to draw away Christ’s disciples after themselves."
Let me ask you: when say, a Catholic, starts studying with JWs and takes a deep interest in what they are learning, what do they do? They can’t hold it in. They speak about what they are learning to everyone, even friends and family who are Catholic. Does that person want to draw disciples to themselves? No. When a person leaveS the Catholic religion to become a JW, they are apostatizing from the Catholic religion.
Now, say a JW learns things, say about 607 BC, or other aspects about Watchtower theology that make it untenable? They see what the Bible says and it differs from what orthodox teaching. What happens? That person is burning with a desire to tell their friends and family what they have learned. Do they want followers? No. They simply want to express their faith.
Or they read Steven Hassan’s book Combating Cult Mind Control, which does not mention JWs at all, but they see all the aspects of BITE mind control, as well as Lipton’s 8 points of Thought Reform, are at work in the Watchtower, just as it at work in the Moonies, Mormons, Scientology, and other groups.
If a person believes their friends and family are in a cult, what should they do? Would they want to keep that knowledge to themselves? No, their desire is to rescue their friends and family.
Truly, what do us ‘apostates’ really want? They want to follow a path of their own choosing and to keep their loved ones. Even if their friends and family stick with being JW, they don’t want to lose them. They don’t want to be shunned.
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losingit
Thank you Londo111.