AnOMaly sound like she has all the hallmarks of a former double life JW Reniaa who cruises dating sites all the while coming on here telling everyone she's going back to the WTS when she's cleaned up her seedy lifestyle, and all could be Eggnogg and Maze.
Open letter Re: Mr. Bowen, Mrs. Anderson
by Prime 91 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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Retrovirus
Prime writes
I believe that every instance of abuse as well other crimes should be reported to the authorities whether it's the law or not. If you're a hearsay witness, you're potentially being used for something illegal.
I don't understand the last sentence. How can you be "used for something illegal" by reporting probable abuse or other crime to appropriate authorities?
Now, spreading such information to other, non-authorised persons or organisations - such as wt headquarters or legal department - that could lead to defamation procedures!
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DATA-DOG
Evidently Christ Jesus' Brothers, the Governing Body of the WTBTS inc., cannot be bothered with the unfair burden of protecting children.
" knowingly makes a false report of abuse or neglect. " Hmmm... That's the chance that I would be willing to take to protect a child. I highly doubt the police would bust an innocent person for reporting an incident of abuse that turned out to be false. The Police are trained to spot persons who make up false allegations, it's part of their job. In fact it is another reason to involve the Authorities from the outset. They can find out who is telling the truth and who is not much better than you and I, or someone who's investigational training only applies to picking out the best window-washing solutions or floor-sweeping compound.
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jwfacts
What terribly poor use of logic.
A Bible-based organization is to do away with what is stated in the Bible?
The 2 Witness rule, based on Matthew 18, is not about child abuse. It discusses how an adult should approach another adult prior to going to the elders when they have a problem. You take a Scripture out of context, at the beckoning of your human leaders, at the endangerment of children.
The congregation doesn't interfere with the legal system doing its job.
It tried to, hiding behind the seal of confession, but lost.
You state " The Watchtower Society doesn't have the right to ask more of the elders than what's legally and scripturally required of them." Next you claim " It's appropriate for any organization that promotes family values to take some action against anyone who persists in a crime punishable by law. " That is why the Watchtower should go further than the law requires of them, not try to do the bare minimum. Watchtower claims to be superior to any other organisation, yet the issue of child abuse shows it lagging behind other organisations.
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Farkel
Anyone here remember "Fred Hall" from years of yore? Well, he was the village idiot, the moron of morons and we all had a ball with bashing his idiocy.
I am happy to announce to this beloved forum that "Prime" has taken up his legacy. We all need punching-bag idiots for intellectual recreation.
Praise Jesus!
Farkel
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GLTirebiter
What authority gives this woman or the administrative position of Jehovah's Witnesses the right to require more from the elders than the federal government?
That is a ridiculous statement, because it is not a matter of federal law. The governments of the states and territories make the laws regarding child abuse and requiring it to be reported.
From a US government summary [pdf, approx. 500KB] of the states' mandatory reporting laws [my emphasis added via boldface]:
"All States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands have statutes identifying persons who are required to report child maltreatment under specific circumstances."
"The circumstances under which a mandatory reporter must make a report vary from State to State. Typically, a report must be made when the reporter, in his or her official capacity, suspects or has reasons to believe that a child has been abused or neglected."
"The clergy-penitent privilege is also widely affirmed, although that privilege usually is limited to confessional communications and, in some States, denied altogether."
[Judicial committee meetings do not have the expectation of privacy associated with a confessional because they involve more people other than the penitent and a minister, emphasising the singular "a"]
"Approximately 18 States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, and the Virgin Islands currently require mandatory reporters to provide their names and contact information, either at the time of the initial oral report or as part of a written report. [footnote] California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Vermont have this requirement."
[In those states, including several of the most populous states and the headquarters of the Watchtower Society, an anonymous call from a pay phone will not meet the legal requirement for notification.]
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Band on the Run
I no longer know your point. You have excessive concern for the very minor instances of intentional unfounded accusations. Let me rest your fevered brain.The lae always imposed sanctions against knowingly false accusations. Defamation is nothing compared to prison.When I was in law school thirty years ago, law had already been transformed since the Middle Ages.Sophisticated studies proved that women don't invent rape charges. Children could not give evidence b/c they lie. During the early Middle Ages, English law determined truth by ordeal. If you were weighted with heavy stones and thrown in a river, demons would rescue a liar. You were deemed truthful if you drowned.
Hard science changed these notions. Children rarely lie., esp about sex abuse. A ruined reputation can be repaired. Juries do their jobs. Early childhood trauma hurts until death.
Soon the Witnesses and their bogus lawyers will sit in prison where they already belong. Thr WT will soon learn about millions of dollars in damages.Society will not tolerate their venal crimes. There is no need to call Bethel for any reason.
The Witnesses retain 1st Amendment rights to determine how they will respond as a religious institution. Once secular law is obeyed, they can stomp on Bible principles any way they want. If I am free, I will defend their right to misapply the Biblre. The Roman church served the world in a far more loving way than the Witnesses ever will. Witnesses are not allowed to know the law. Any elder who serves is an utter fool in terms of exposu to liability. The world is clear. Jesus was clear. CHILDREN COME FIRST, NOT PERVERTS.Q
t
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Prime
That is a ridiculous statement, because it is not a matter of federal law. The governments of the states and territories make the laws regarding child abuse and requiring it to be reported.
From a US government summary [pdf, approx. 500KB] of the states' mandatory reporting laws [my emphasis added via boldface]:
"All States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands have statutes identifying persons who are required to report child maltreatment under specific circumstances."
"The circumstances under which a mandatory reporter must make a report vary from State to State. Typically, a report must be made when the reporter, in his or her official capacity, suspects or has reasons to believe that a child has been abused or neglected."
"The clergy-penitent privilege is also widely affirmed, although that privilege usually is limited to confessional communications and, in some States, denied altogether."
[Judicial committee meetings do not have the expectation of privacy associated with a confessional because they involve more people other than the penitent and a minister, emphasising the singular "a"]
"Approximately 18 States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, and the Virgin Islands currently require mandatory reporters to provide their names and contact information, either at the time of the initial oral report or as part of a written report. [footnote] California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Vermont have this requirement."
[In those states, including several of the most populous states and the headquarters of the Watchtower Society, an anonymous call from a pay phone will not meet the legal requirement for notification.]
Article VI Clause 2 of the Constitution reads:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Law of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Usually referred to as the supremacy clause, it declares that federal law takes precedence over all forms of state law.
That's why I stated; “What authority gives this woman or the administrative position of Jehovah's Witnesses the right to require more from the elders than the federal government?”
If a “pay phone” will not suffice, an elder will fill out the appropriate paper work.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/acs/html/child_safety/mandated_reporters.shtml
Oral reports must be followed within 48 hours by a written report to the local CPS (for more information on this process, click here ). A copy of the current Mandated Reporter Form (LDSS Form 2221A) can be downloaded here (Word format)
JWs are simple persons if they're law abiding citizens. That's where a line is drawn. I notice people keep inserting ecclesiastical statements into their assertions. Unless a person or organization's ecclesiastical protocols or tenets conflict with secular law, separation of church and state takes precedent. You have no right to use the government to force your opinions on any person or organization based on anything ecclesiastical.
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Chaserious
Article VI Clause 2 of the Constitution reads: ....
The Supremacy Clause has nothing to do with this. Prime said:
it declares that federal law takes precedence over all forms of state law.
That is not quite correct. The Supremacy clause only means that valid federal law takes precedence over inconsistent state law. Is there some federal law that you think is inconsistent with the state laws that GLT pointed out? I'm not aware of any federal reporting law. In any event, your initial statement about the WTS requiring more than the federal government is just silly. Of course the " administrative position of Jehovah's Witnesses" has "the right to require more from the elders than the federal government." They require that elders (and other Jehovah's Witnesses) not own handguns, don't they? Doesn't that go beyond what the constitution allows, in that a state or city could never ban its residents from owning handguns? They can require whatever they want from the elders. They like to boast about being the most morally pure people out there. So why not set the example in prioritizing the prevention of abuse over bad publicity against the organization? Whatever the government requires is a floor, not a ceiling. If you want to boast about your morals, don't do the minimum.
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DATA-DOG
" You have no right to use the government to force your opinions on any person or organization based on anything ecclesiastical."
Tell that to the GOD you supposedly believe in.