Introduction and a note on several posts here (page 4)

Captain Obvious

Welcome LizO!

I only disagree with one point you made... You may want to learn more about mind control. It can be much more subtle than you think, take on many forms, and be called many different things.

LizO

Thank you all for your comments. My point at the end of the day is that based on numerous people in leadership I have come to know (including Bethelites)

I do understand

- that they at times can get carried away and let personal power thoughts influence their thinking

- that at times they turn their focus to things like financing the kingdom halls or putting focus on holding up traditions

But what simply not remotely fits my experience is that the leadership would

- delibaretely lie

- delibaretely try to make people suffer

Instead I have no doubt that they (meaning all leadership) truly believe in what they preach and are generally trying to meet their standards to the best of their knowledge/ability.

This is why I believe that it makes more sense generally turn discussions to content/logic of teaching/real-life behavior, rather than to question the motives or character of the whole leadership.

One example. Organ transplants were forbidden, up until 1979 you'd have been DF'd for it and completely shunned by family and friends. 1980 it's ok, no shunning. People died because these men make up garbage like that. It may not be in your view lying but they are making statements saying almighty god will be disgusted with you for this, they then change it (in the full knowledge that many, many jw's died because they took a stand based on their authority, without scriptures I may add) without the hint of an apology and disguise it as new light.

they don't 'suggest' it, they say its absolutely the case that god thinks a certain way and they change that later all the while giving no good reason. Show me a scripture that says men can't have a beard and give an item at an assembly? What scripture says woman can't wear a trouser suit in the Kingdom Hall? Small things but absolute idiotic rules made up completely for no good reason.

whether we like it or not these men have for years made up various things and said its gods will with no real evidence to back it up. It's actually disgusting.

iCeltic

If it looks like feces, smells like feces then its a safe bet that it is feces.

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Welcome LizO!

I'll just mention that most of us here have seen WT and JWs from different angles. Eyewitnesses may all see the same incident, but give very different accounts of the event.

ABibleStudent

Welcome LizO.

I look forward to your perspective in more threads on JWN. JWN members are at different stages of grief/anger/disillisionment towards the WTBTS. I have never been a JW, but I feel that my life was adversely affected by the WTBTS and do not want non-JWs recruited into the WTBTS. You may experience many different stages yourself as you continue to post on JWN.

LizO - I find lots of things on this forum dishonest and distressing and certain accusations are straight-out ridiculous and illogical. Such kind of criticism does only strengthen whomever is in the organization because it weakens the reliability of arguments which indeed are valid. Examples for such intellectually dishonest criticism are that the organization would be full of
- bad intentions
- trying to squeeze money for personal interests
- cruelty
- trying to mind-control

In your first post you made several generalized statements in my opinion that will lead to more debates, Ad hominem attacks, and name calling than to discussions. What is your purpose for posting on JWN? Is it to defend the WTBTS? Is it to help exJWs return to the WTBTS? Is it to have an open and intellectual discussion about the WTBTS's doctrines and policies and how JWs impleement those doctrines? I hope that you start more threads and present your opinions and support your opinions with specific references and examples.

What non-WTBTS books and articles have you read about mind control? If you haven't read any, please read Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones to Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visit his website www.freedomofmind.com, or watch videos on his website before commenting about BITE control techniques that the WTBTS does use.

If you believe that the WTBTS does not use BITE control techniques on JWs, then please research WTBTS writings using the WTBTS's Cd and old WTBTS documents that you may find on the internet or in a KH. From a non-JWs perspective ask yourself: Why does the WTBTS promote not visiting and posting on sites such as JWN? Why does the WTBTS promote shunning friends and family for disagreeing with WTBTS leadership and not following WTBTS doctrines and policies? How did the founder of the WTBTS Charles Taze feel about shunning (Hint: visit www.jwfacts.com to find the answer)? I could tell you the answers to the questions that I asked, but it is better for you to critically think for yourself.

By visiting JWN you have taken the first step in peeling away layers of BITE control phobias that the WTBTS has indoctrinated into JWs. Don't believe me, please watch this video from a healthcare professional about BITE control and phobias: Steve Hassan explains SIA method to rescue loved ones from unhealthy situations (2003).

Best of wishes in learning how to critically think for yourself!

Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

Robert

Giordano

Welcome LizO, if you can't take the heat.........

I will not give them a pass because they have caused the deaths of thousands by meddling in medical decisions and beyond meddling they threaten to DF anyone who does not go along with their teachings:

Prohibition on blood transfusions which have caused ten's of thousands of needless deaths since 1945.

Prohibition on vaccines until the society wanted to start the ministry work in Europe after WW 2 and they needed vaccines to be able to get passports. Before they permitted vaccines...... more deaths.

Prohibition on transplants which they called cannibalism at the time (until they changed that policy). More needless deaths.

Declaring the end of the world by a specific year 9 to 11 times.....see jwfacts.org.

Consistent flip flopping on many beliefs multiple times....... see jwfacts.org. Beliefs they DF you for if you didn’t accept them, then changed those beliefs with no apology or reinstatement offered.

JW's teach that Billions will die at Armageddon because they are not JW’s. That means that every child and adult one sees are nothing more then walking dead people.

Their leadership has been less then trustworthy. Pastor Russell (who wasn't a pastor) had a teenage mistress. Judge Rutherford, who wasn't a judge unless you feel a one day appointment to hear a legal case earned him the title of Judge, Was a drunk and also had mistresses.

On going leadership reflected the education of the 19th century which included a lack of a social understanding. Being a witness from birth to death means you are nothing more then a number to the WTBTS.

No day care or children's programs at the Kingdom Hall. They discourage school sports and after school classes.

By Discouraging higher education the JW’s now rank (according to the Pew survey) the second to last educated of all religions (USA) and second to last re their income.

Yes there are nice and kind people in that religion, there are in every religion. But few people will allow their children to be sacrificed for lack of a medical treatment, or discourage higer education of some sort. Or bring their children up so they have an opportunity to experience sports or hobbies or normal associations. Those nice witnesses don't really think for themselves and worse they discourage independent thinking in their children. Which probably accounts for the 67% of born-ins leaving (Pew survey). The lowest retention rate for any religion.

Newly Enlightened

Welcome LizO, glad to have you here with us.

Iown Mylife

MIND CONTROL is a great subject to research. Steve Hassan said when the [insert organization name here] representatives first enter your home, that's when the mind control begins. You subsequently think you are joining the organization voluntarily. There is no conscious realization that the mechanics of how your brain actually worked have been altered.

IF something jars the complacency in your robot-like mindset, it takes the rest of your life to recover and go back to thinking for yourself. That's IF you even realize you need to recover.

Iown Mylife

As several have mentioned, this website has been extremely helpful for making progress in healing, both emotionally and intellectually. After being startled and astounded by learning new facts about WT history, last night I got still another jolt by reading THIS:

www.marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2010/05/oath-of-allegiance_11.html

Introduction and a note on several posts here

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