"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah" (page 4)

kaik

" I have encountered no other people on earth who as a community so singularly exhibit the qualities that Christ said would identify his people." Whatever it means you are contradicting yourself. You cannot say that community exhibits qualities while in your reasoning claim that WT's leadership, governing body is rotten. Additionally, JW do not worship Jesus at all. Jesus is not centerpiece in the WT and JW worship, which is unique among Christians. He is not even mediator between masses of JWs, but only pack of small crowd of 144K remaining on Earth. The main Deity is Jehovah, not Jesus. JWs do not pray to him either. It is rather funny when JWs claims to be Christians, when in reality of their theology, they ARE NOT.

kaik

"The organization is imperfect, but" is common phase among JWs and their apologetic crowd. This also pertains to group of DFs people who consider themselves a martyr for "Truth"; see themselves as ancient, unaccepted prophets of ancient Israel; but believe that WT is the Truth. I have heard after my walkout from WT from DFs person that does not matter what, he will always be on the side of Jehovah, regardless if he is accepted in the KH or not. When I asked what it personally mean to him, he was not sure what to say. For JWs the centerpiece is the organization and less is to do with a specific established worship. If WT starts pushing new light of Trinity, the good JWs would not have any issue to accept it. Doctrine means very little to WT, and with it the faith to it, but loyalty to organization is foremost. The relationship to God is very superficial the most. How can society develop relationship to God when they changing their doctrine all the time?

SimonSays

Interesting. At what point did the governing body become infallible. You seem to forget the GB are just people like the rest of us, and are subject to sin like the rest of us. When something goes array, God cleanse his house. Several GB’s have been disfellowshipped in the past. Remember Raymond Franz, a person you people admire here. Whatever excuse you wish to place on him, he was removed for the right reason, regardless if you agree with it or not.

The Governing Body are servants to shoulder the load of spiritual food. It’s incumbent upon them and the bethel house to make every attempt to fully understand scripture. All the questions that have been asked and misrepresented here have already been researched and scrutinized by them. Through prayer they trust in God that all decisions coming out of Bethel are correct, and if it isn’t they correct it. They don’t inadvertently hide anything.

The elders are there for the same thing. To shepherd the flock, but they’re not above them. At least in the USA maybe things are done differently. Why do you think so many disfellowshipped elders or ex-witnesses are here, because God cleaned house, and since they refuse to see their error of not taking responsibility for their own actions and have not repented, then they will continue to spew lies in order to confuse the younger generation into not believing in God all together. This also goes for active Witnesses that think by cloaking themselves here no one knows, but then again God does. So who is fooling who? The spiritual power of Christ sacrifice is upon us. Each person is responsible for their own salvation. The GB or Elders are not there to save your souls because they can’t, but to go through the same journey of salvation as instructed by Jesus and passed on to his Apostles for all to appreciate the ability of being one of God’s creation he has loved to a point of patients for us to redeem that sacrifice. So it is God’s Judgment not man’s that scripture holds the truth for.

So don’t confuse the perception of God’s channel. To the Catholics, the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, in other words, the Pope is acting Christ that through prayer the Holy Spirit makes him infallible. They call that The “Papal infallibility” and the Catholic Bishops are “Apostolic Succession” in other words Apostles. The GB doesn’t frame themselves with such high expectations other than through prayer. No imperfect soul can cleanse or forgive sin. Jesus Could because his was perfect, and eventually the apostles could through Christ, but that’s because Jesus gave them that power directly.

Whatever the case maybe. For those that still believe in God, It is no longer a time to separate but unit all Christian faiths for the greater good through Christ our savior to accomplish what he started in 33 C.E.

Being a Witness of YHWH is not just a mission but a reckoning of love and faith towards your own salvation. I wonder do any of you have that type of commitment as you do with your regular lives anymore to speak of love not hate, happiness not bitterness, appeasement not anger since that’s what it seems your arguments are, why haven’t you found it. HMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

James Mixon

I call BS to the highest degree...

LHS123

I understand both points of view, on the one hand,

some might stay because they feel despite its imperfections and mistakes, this is the closest to the truth that there is, they learned a lot from this org and 'where else' would they go?

On the other hand,

Some might say, in all good conscience I can no longer accept the GB as gods channel, I can no longer recommend this way of life to others, because I see too many grave mistakes, imperfection etc. This feeling becomes especially powerful when you think: if they've got it wrong on blood then thousands have died needlessly, even children. It's quite likely that their incorrect policies have allowed children to be raped and sodomised whilst their abusers were inadvertently sheltered; and unfortunately there are thousands of broken families out there where parents are told they can't associate with their children and vice versa etc etc.

Either way, if we are conscientiously trying to do the right thing for God, ourselves and our families then will Jehovah and Jesus judge us adversely either way?? I know the GB says yes He will of the second group, but having read the gospel of Christ how can anyone believe that could be true?

Bonsai

My whole life I was told/taught that Jah's org. was clean and as a whole pure in worship. I was taught that using the divine name was the determiner between true and false worship of god. I was taught that god was a just and loving father. I was taught that the GB were directed by god's PERFECT holy spirit unlike the other religious organizations. I believed it all thoroughly and completely.

It was during my preaching to worldly people that they made me aware of:

1. encouragement of buying war bonds during WW1

2. The name "Jehovah" is a man-made concoction that was created by the very same kind of people who out of superstition removed it in the first place. Adonai is a superstitious title. Adding it to YHVH doesn't make it holy.

3. a Jew bashing letter sent to Hitler from Rutherford in 1933 which was filled with anti-semitism while yet commending the Nazi party for its high moral ideals. No doubt this letter further enflamed Nazi hatred toward the "big business" Jews leading up to the holocaust.

4. revisionist history (i.e. what JW's really taught 100 years ago about 1914 as opposed to what they say about it now)

5.False claims: 1874, 1914, 1915, 1920, 1925, 1943, 1975, "before the end of the 20th century" etc.

6. Invoking the creator in their false claims= false prophecy. look at the masthead of Awake! pre-1995 where it says, "this magazine builds the readers confidence in the creator's promise that before the generation of 1914 passes away this system will conclude." The creator promised no such thing.

7. Sleeping with the beast. They were secretly NGO's for over a decade "associating" with the United Nations.

8. Cruel and unusual punishment. The reinstatement process for a person who is repentant is NOT SCRIPTURAL.

9. Shunning for any other reason than being an anti-Christ (1 John 2:11) is NOT SCRIPTURAL and has destroyed countless families and caused countless suicides.

10. Terribly stupid policies that ended up protecting child molestors rather than the victims.

Bonsai

An imperfect, family destroying, fact hiding, dual standard, money grabbing, fault finding organization is very much problematic when trying to worship god with "spirit and truth".

Bonsai

Whatever the case maybe. For those that still believe in God, It is no longer a time to separate but unit all Christian faiths for the greater good through Christ our savior to accomplish what he started in 33 C.E.

What a load of crock. In what way have JW's ever united Christians? they come to your door, tell you that you are wrong, and that unless you join their org. and accept their imperfect and ever changing doctrines - you will die. SMH.

shadow

An imperfect, family destroying, fact hiding, dual standard, money grabbing, fault finding organization is very much problematic when trying to worship god with "spirit and truth".

and yet whenever humans are involved that result is inevitable

kaik

"Being a Witness of YHWH is not just a mission but a reckoning of love and faith towards your own salvation. I wonder do any of you have that type of commitment as you do with your regular lives anymore to speak of love not hate, happiness not bitterness, appeasement not anger since that’s what it seems your arguments are, why haven’t you found it. HMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!"

So you worship a G-d for your salvation? Kinda hypocrisy and selfish. The purpose in faith in God is to worship Him because we love him, not because you are afraid of punishment (hell, Armageddon), or for reward (eternity in paradise). This shows how deviant is your faith. Now you make too much generalization of people outside KH are bitter, angry or hateful. I am neither, I have established successful career in my life after KH, have stable marriage, and enjoying life. Yeah and I have commitments, but I do not need Bible for it.

"The organisation is imperfect, but it doesn't affect my relationship with Jehovah"

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