Prayers that God answers. Any examples? (page 21)

mP

EP

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent".

mP:

What about guns and other weapons ?

AndDontCallMeShirley

I've heard many people, including JWs, make this statement in regard to their prayers: "if it be God's will".

So, if god's will is the primary/only determining factor as to the outcome of any prayer offered, why pray? Your prayers will not make one iota's difference.

For example, (assuming you believe the Bible), the apostle Paul repeatedly prayed to god to remove 'this thorn from my flesh'. The WT speculates this may have been a problem with his eyesight. Regardless, the thorn was not removed, because it was not "god's will". So, if Paul had prayed 24 hours a day to have his "thorn in the flesh" cured, god's answer would always continue to be "no".

So, why pray?

LisaRose

Don't get me wrong. I'm not aruguing that they were answered. I just don't see how anyone can claim without ANY doubt...that they weren't. How can anyone be so sure that someone elses prayers weren't answered in some way.

Here is my thinking on this, for what it's worth; When I was a dub and a true believer, I prayed many times for help. I did not pray for anything selfish, just wisdom and strength to deal with problems in my life. Not one prayer was answered in any concrete way. Many people say their prayers were answered, so if I am to believe them, then either God was arbitrary, (answering some prayers and not others), or I failed to meet some standard, despite my sincere belief (God's standards are unknowable), or those people are mistaken (coincidence, wishful thinking, etc).

So either God is arbitrary, or his standards are unknowable, or its all just wishful thinking on someone's part. So, tell me, why should I keep praying? I do think, for those of faith, prayer can be a help, in that you feel better for having quantified your problems and given them over to God to solve, but that does not mean that God had anything to do with it, it's just a construct that makes you feel better. I find journaling and meditation to be more effective than prayer in helping to come to terms with problems and think of solution.

AndDontCallMeShirley

So either God is arbitrary, or his standards are unknowable

This becomes most obvious during tragedy. A passenger jet crashes, one person survives, the other 249 on board die.

Invariably, the lone survivor declares they are alive "because god heard my prayer and saved me".

What's never directly acknowledged is that for a certainty the other 249 were also praying for divine protection. Yet, they perished. This also places the burden of explanation on the religious: if god had the ability to save the one, why did he choose not to save the 249? It betrays that god is arbitrary and unjust and prayers hold no sway in the final outcome of anything.

To your point, Lisa, prayer is nothing more than a variation of similar methods used in the field of psychology:

1. clarify a desired goal or outcome

2. repeat that goal several times throughout the day

3. hold a positive belief that goal will be reached successfully.

4. take action that moves you toward your goal.

Christians skip step #4 (or at least think they do, as god will now do all the work for them. In reality, you'll often find that "miracles" are nothing more than the predictable result of actually rolling up your sleeves and doing something).

However, this methodology above shows that goals and outcomes can be achieved by galvanizing the mind. Prayer is neither necessary nor helpful. In fact, it is often a crutch, as the person is waiting on god to do what the person is fully capable of doing on their own.

EntirelyPossible

What about guns and other weapons ?

Stay on topic please. If you want to discuss another issue, start a thread.

EntirelyPossible

In reality, you'll often find that "miracles" are nothing more than the predictable result of actually rolling up your sleeves and doing something

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

humbled

My father believed prayer saved his life during the Korean war. Yet 2 years ago when a MRSA infection set in on his feet and he suffered a lot and prayed a lot --well I can't say how he felt about God's answer. He lost one leg above the knee then the other was rotten too,but they couldn't take it off because his general health was not up to it. Hospice and death for him followed quickly but not before he was howling for God to let him die.

Believe me, I don't understand prayer. But I pray. I remember Jesus saying "your sins are forgiven you" to a paralyzed man without healing him. J was criticized for that vanity of forgiving the man's sins. So J asked-- Is it easier to forgive sin or to heal? So J then said, "Pick up your bed and walk." and it says that the man did.

A clear conscience is what helps me live so that story of the crippled man resonates with me. That said my choices in life have been questionable at best--what does it mean?

Screwed up as a person can be in many ways at age 61, I am trying yet to make sense of things. I pray and have prayer answered and sometimes not. I know of a healer who doesn't know why when some come to him and are healed, others are not. Yet people come to see if through him God will help them--and for some they get the "St. Paul Answer"--"my grace is sufficient for thee". And often it is enough.

AndDontCallMeShirley

I know of a healer who doesn't know why when some come to him and are healed, others are not.

It's called The Placebo Effect

It works without any religious influence whatsoever

Spontaneous healing and remission of disease is well documented in medical journals.

Again, it works without any religious influence whatsoever.

humbled

It's more puzzling than that, though I know what you're saying, and I agree with it.

I really would like your take on this particular healer if you have time--or anyone else. Can't copy and paste but google "Is Fr. Ralph Diorio legit?"

He has been around for a few decades , I saw him 1984 or 1985.

humbled

It's more puzzling than that, though I know what you're saying, and I agree with it.

I really would like your take on this particular healer if you have time--or anyone else. Can't copy and paste but google "Is Fr. Ralph Diorio legit?"

He has been around for a few decades , I saw him 1984 or 1985.

Prayers that God answers. Any examples?

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