You atheist really annoyed me

by confusedandalone 226 Replies latest jw friends

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  Seraphim23

  Oh I see Cofty, it’s a case that science will definitely, for certain, work it all out in the end. Well good luck with that, but I would point out that the two biggest theories that are supposed to be the best scientific understanding of the universe we have at present, completely contradict each other, so I am not sure who is more desperate here? Rationality if indeed you have it means you should realise that one or other or both of the two theories should be considered wrong, because that is what a contradiction would indicate. They both work of course very well in their own areas in terms of useful results but they are not the explanation for the whole by any stretch of the imagination and that is a big mystery for science.

  However at least I have showed you why what I said was not a false dichotomy. It is sad that your only response was one of condescension but it is what I expected in absence of a discussion.
• 

  cofty

  at least I have showed you why what I said was not a false dichotomy

  No you haven't.

  Your point was that subjective experience is a valid source of evidence for establishing what is true. You still have all your work to do.

  I have no idea why you are talking about physics. Newtonian physics and quamtum theory both work in different scales. When/if science discovers a unified theory it will be by applying the scientific method.

  Superstition has no place in science and science has no comfort for theism.

  “Every mystery ever solved has turned out to be NOT MAGIC .” - Tim Minchen
• 

  slimboyfat

  What exactly do you object to as "psychobabble"?
• 

  Seraphim23

  I like to know the answer to that as well Slimboyfat! I never seem to get a straight answer to a logical point from Cofty.

  Cofty said “Superstition has no place in science and science has no comfort for theism.”

  Well I am not exclusively arguing for theism but that science cannot be the answer to all valid questions. Superstition may not have a place in science as it’s deemed as magic, but superposition in quantum mechanics does? Where a single particle can be in two locations at the same time? That’s not magic or beyond comprehension or rationality? Tell Schrodinger and watch him laugh just as your wave function collapses about your ears! Just because the tools give useful results doesn’t mean your any closer to a materialist or logical empiricist world view that makes rational sense, or a unified field theory that is about to trump the competitors.
• 

  cofty

  I have no idea what your point is and I don't think you do either.

  You seem to be suggesting that science isn't the only tool we have to investigate physics. What do you propose as a "competitor", the ouija board?

  Science and theism are mutually exclusive. Take your pick.

  If you could read over the last couple of pages and summarise your point succinctly that would be helpful.
• 

  slimboyfat

  If science and theism are mutually exclusive how do you account for scientists who believe in God?
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  cofty

  Scientists like Francis Collins and Kenneth Miller can only do good science by leaving god outside the lab. They compartmentalise their lives.

  A medical research scientist who is a theist doesn't factor in how many people were cured by the new drug and how many by god. At church he may pray for god to heal people but at work he must assume god wasn't listening.
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  tootired2care

  With all due respect, one thing that always bothers me is when proponents of theism try to use science to prove their point. The WT$ has been trying to do this for while now. It seems they should not get to use science in their argument because they would have zero knowledge of anything scientific, unless scientifically minded people (like Galileo) had the audacity to challenge religious dogma or the church . So when theist proponets invoke science to prove theism it's somewhat insulting, because (1) theism didn't give them that information and (2) theists throughout history have done everything in their power to styme science and have mitigated centuries of advance and progress.
• 

  Knowsnothing

  Religion, belief and philosophy have a place in humanity, but in the quest for truth about the universe and reality, I don't really think there is another game in town like science. Even so, we should understand science's limitations, which is where the afformentioned domains come in. When science does not know the answer and cannot cure the disease, these fill in the void, even if they are not objectively true.

  I've heard this many times, but science explains the how, not the why. Even though I myself am not religious, I understand where religious people are coming from. They might not have the objective truth, but they have a community of like-minded believers, they have a hope of something better in the future, they have a reason to get up in the morning. Some people just can't do without religion, and so to each his own.
• 

  cofty

  science explains the how, not the why

  Life only makes sense when we stop asking why.

  My optimism is based on genuine human progress rather than promises that have gone unfulfilled for millennia and I have lots of good reasons to get up in the morning without comforting stories.