slimboy define relatiisim?
You atheist really annoyed me
by confusedandalone 226 Replies latest jw friends
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slimboyfat
Meaning is culturally specific. It is impossible to establish any given description of reality as closer to reality than another. Simply some descriptions of reality are more useful and productive than others in given circumstances. In the absence of truth a more pragmatic approach to meaning is best adopted. Alternative ways of conceiving the world should not be silenced.
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adamah
(SBF, from page 1, I think you're confusing rationalism with rationalization: they're very different concepts.)
Interesting thread, everyone.
To no one in particular, my two bits:
I'm a hard atheist (i.e. I make the POSITIVE claim God doesn't exist) when it comes to Jehovah, the God depicted in the Tanakh and worshipped by the Abrahamic religions. The Bible itself provides all the proof one needs to prove His non-existence, since the claims are completely impossible in a natural World (omniscience and omnipotence are completely contradictory traits). Speculating about the supernatural is like asking if a tree makes a sound in the forest if no one hears it: that's a WONDERFUL WAY to waste time, like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (angels, much less dancing angels, much less dancing angels who can balance on heads of pins, have absolutely no basis in reality, unless people WANT to believe in them).
I'd say I'm necessarily an agnostic for a generic 'unknown God', but awaiting (demanding) proof before I'm believing (not that there isn't any utility, or sound reason to believe BEFORE proof is presented: not being shunned is plenty of tangible benefit to at least PROFESS a belief, if you cannot manage to lie to yourself and convince yourself that you believe in God).
Consider this:
In all probability, we're likely NOT the only life-forms possessing some form of intelligence to exist in the Universe, and we haven't yet encountered other life forms is probably due to being separated by distance and time. If we DO encounter more-primitive life forms in our explorations, we may very well appear to them as if possessing magic, and being God-like to them (as Robert Heinlein said, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic to outsiders").
Heck, you don't even need to leave the Earth to encounter other intelligent life forms: to dogs or apes, we ARE the Gods, the possessors of magical powers, able to communicate with other distant humans via spirits (radio waves), travel across the sky (airplanes, helicopters, hang gliders, etc), kill others at a distance (firearms, nuclear warheads), etc. We ARE possessors of the power of Gods, able to control the weather (cloud seeding), cure/heal disease, etc. Humans are just too afraid to admit their power, out of fear of being seen as blasphemous and arrogant (a trait the Bible makes the greatest sin).
Some humans demand animals do our will, whether they actually understand their role or not. Homo sapiens ARE in fact sometimes cruel Gods to other life-forms, breeding, raising, slaughtering, and consuming them for OUR survival: we ARE evil and cruel Gods to cattle and chickens, whether they're aware of it or not and whether we try to kill them "humanely" or not. They die, and we survive: ALL humans, including YOU, are the benefactors of "natural selection", whether you want to realize it or not.
Funny how THAT truth and reality is all around us, but most are so immersed in our personal narcissism due to being confined to our limited homo sapien perspective that so many will spend their entire lives looking up at the sky to Heaven, ever-diligent for an omnipotent and omniscient Greater God who will "save us"?
BTW, I'm not some animal rights activist who says we should stop eating animals (I LOVE a nice juicy steak too much to become a vegetarian on ethical grounds), just that people should recognize that we're in a good position as the dominant species on the Planet, and should have the courage to accept the moral responsibility and own up to what we do. People need to stop blaming it on a being that doesn't exist, no matter how hard it is to accept one's own responsibility for one's part they play in the system (the OT says that God made them kill the animals they often ate, in order to atone for their human sins; they rationalized it in Genesis 9:5-6, saying it was OK with YHWH to eat animals, just as long as they didn't eat their blood. That's alot of rationalization for killing and eating a non-dominant life form, in a World that operates on the cycle of life).
Adamah
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*lost*
bumped
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bohm
It is impossible to establish any given description of reality as closer to reality than another
So the watchtower is as accurate as you are?
cool...
funny thing, the one thing you dont seem the least bit sceptical about is your brand of pseudo-philosophical mumbo-jumbo.
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LisaRose
I have been out of town, so I am just catching up, very interesting discussion.
SLIMBOYFAT: Meaning is culturally specific. It is impossible to establish any given description of reality as closer to reality than another. Simply some descriptions of reality are more useful and productive than others in given circumstances. In the absence of truth a more pragmatic approach to meaning is best adopted. Alternative ways of conceiving the world should not be silenced.
I have read this three times and I still have no idea what you are talking about.
Cofty, I apologize for criticizing you earlier in the thread, after thinking it over and reading further posts, I understand much better why you post as you do.
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slimboyfat
So the watchtower is as accurate as you are?
Don't know you tell me, is relativism or the Watchtower nearer "reality"?