Frazzled UBM said-
I can certainly see how shunning ups the ante in terms of resentment because it destroys relationships and I suspect must create a sense of wariness about new relationships - 'I thought these people were my friends but they have abandoned me because I disagree witht their beliefs so can I trust anyone who purports to be my friend.'
Yup.
But it's actually the ULTIMATE betrayal of trust, since it comes from one's OWN family members, the ones who are SUPPOSED to stick by your side since they are the only humans on the entire Planet you actually share your genes with (your parents, children, brothers, sisters), history, experiences, and love. IN topsy-turvy fashion, the organization INVERTS all of that, and intrudes into the family arrangement by demanding that THEY be placed at the top. That undermines one's confidence in EVERYBODY they meet, for if their own family, their own flesh-and-blood is so willing to throw them under the bus at the least provocation, then WHOM can they trust?
The family members who go along with it have completely sacrificed their OWN judgment and internal moral sense, since every fiber of their moral bewing MUST scream out at them, "THIS IS NOT RIGHT!" but the JWs have anticipated that emotional reaction, and once again are ready to offer platitudes, telling them that the problem is they are being "weak" by following their heart, and they must remain "strong" by doing the weakest thing possible: "I was just following orders". It's just so inverted and opposite it's actually perversely brilliant, completely coming around the 'insanity wheel' to spin and constitute brilliant manipulation. A psychologist couldn't devise a better control tactic, even if they tried.
Still I think shunning is one weapon in the armoury of emotional, social and psychological control the organisation and while it one of the most powerful, I suspect the use of fear generally may be even more powerful and almost as damaging. So even in the absence of shunning I still think there would be resentful about how fear was use to implant delusional beliefs which impacted negatively on XJWs lives and ability to reach their potential and so discovery of TTATT must create a sense of betrayal of trust.
Yup.
As seen in Milgram's study (discussed in this thread), subjects reach a point where they sacrifice all judgment, driven towards completion being prodded on by the chilling words delivered by the actor (who portrays the scientist), "It is imperative that you continue with the study".
Even after the person who is getting shocked no longer responds, the subject figures, "well, I've gone this far: in by an inch, in by a mile" and they've completely turned off their rational thought. The other people hooked to the electrodes has stopped responding (either dead or unconscious) and they figure it's OK to shock a corpse, so might as well continue: it actually gets EASIER for them to comply, at that point!
I have some sympathy for the view that we should not be too harsh on 1009. He has challenged our thinking and caused us to articulate the reasons for it, which I think is a good thing.
Yeah, I agree.
See, the thing is that JWs and ex-JWs are not that different, psychologically-speaking, as much as neither side wants to admit it. Depending on where you're at, one group is either AHEAD of you and where you're GOING, OR WAS where you once were (isn't that a scary thought, LOL!). Time will tell which is which, and where you end up. Paul used to be Saul, right? As long as people grow and move forward, growing in their individual sense of morality, I'm down with their decision. For some, joining the JWs is a step UP in morality, whereas some quickly "hit the ceiling" in the JWs, and it's time to move on since they've outgrown the need to allow others to control them. Some are just excellent actors, and are able to ACT like they're repentent and observant, but are simply playing the JW game well.
No one can read hearts, so as long as they're growing and not harming others (or being harmed BY others, against their will), then it's OK by me. I just think BOTH groups need to own up to the reponsibility of "trying to be a little kinder" to others, with or without religious beliefs hindering the process.
But I do not think we should attack what he says by casting aspersions of his motives - this is a tactic employed by the WBTS and it is an odious tactic because it is a frontal attack on the ability to reason.
Yup, that's off-bounds since it hinders rational thought, whether we're discussing JWs or on a gardening forum; it's an appeal to emotion, and most of us have had a brainful of that kind of emotional thought-stoppage to last a life-time.
Missfit said:
I would like to be able to come on here and put down how I feel without having to worry: am I sounding brain washed. ..am I sounding like a troll because I dont agree? Maybe I am out of my depth.
I find if I wait , someone will post just what I was feeling or what I wanted to say only better. Or they will say something that will make me reconsider my views.
If I haven't said it yet, welcome aboard! We all share fundamentally-unique views and experiences, and just like any group of people, their experiences will vary: YMMV (your mileage may vary).
A good rule to remember on ANY internet forum is that just because someone posts something that inflames us, there's NO LAW that we must respond. Life is too short if we let others control our feelings, since it allows them to control our behavior. I'll often read posts and even write a response, only to abort posting, saying, "Nope, not gunna do it. They're just words on a screen." I've apparently working on that last fruitage of the spirit, self-control. Just because I'm not a JW means I've discarded all the moral principles given in the Bible: it's just they all needed to be questioned, keeping the worthwhile while discarding the bad (eg slavery, misogyny, discriminating against gays, etc).
Adam
...OUTLAW