Office Building larger than Noah's Ark

by VM44 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  VM44

  This is something interesting that I just found online.

  Question

  When was the story of Noah's Ark written?

  Answer

  The biblical story of Noah's Ark actually has two, slightly different stories woven together to appear to be one complex and slightly confusing story. The first of these was written by the Yahwist source, who lived around 800-900 BCE, while the second story was written by the Priestly source, who probably lived during the sixth century BCE*.

  The stories of Noah's Ark have much in common with the story of the great flood in the much older Epic of Gilgamesh, as well as several other Near Eastern epics. However, it was probably not a copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh, but rather they probably had a more ancient common source, written long before the time of the Hebrew people. Ian Wilson (Before the Flood) believes that there once was a great flood that to its survivors must have seemed like a world-wide event sent by the gods. This occurred in 5600 BCE, when the Mediterranean Sea broke through the narrow Bosporus land-bridge and inundated the lush farmland where the Black Sea now lies. Epic stories of this event and its survivors would have been passed on orally until the development of writing at least one thousand years later, when the legend predecessor to Noah's Ark was committed to writing.

  Footnote

  * The verses attributed to the Yahwist are: Genesis 6:5-8, 7:1-5, 7:7, 7:10, 7:12, 7:16b-17, 7:22-23, 8:2b-3a, 8:6, 8:8-12, 8:13b, 8:20-22. The verses attributed to the Priestly author are: Genesis 6:9-22, 7:6, 7:8-9, 7:11, 7:13-16a, 7:18-21, 7:24, 8:1-2a, 8:3b-5, 8:7, 8:13a, 8:14-19, 9:1-17.
• 

  adamah

  RayPublisher said:

  The flood story was either a local phenon or was allegorical. Regardless, it does not diminish the lesson(s) that can be learned by sincere readers of the Bible IMO.

  And what would that allegory be, and a metaphor of WHAT, exactly?

  You're presumably a "sincere reader of the Bible", so lay your allegory on us, please.

  Before that though, consider my reading of the account, and how it interacts with the creation account earlier in Genesis:

  God makes man (AND plants AND animals) and declares all of it as "very good" in Genesis 1:29. Then in Genesis 6, God cannot ignore the rampant evil and mayhem any longer, so expresses regretting MAKING man (and plants and animals) and decides to wipe the slate clean. Not very prescient (ability to see the future), if God cannot even anticipate His OWN reactions to a decision He made BEFORE mankind was even around to pin the blame on?

  After the Flood, God decides it MIGHT be a good idea to roll out His fix to the problem of 'evil in men's hearts', with the new "no manslaughter" rule (found in Genesis 9:5; note this was EVEN AFTER serving as Divine judge in the case of "YHWH vs Cain", seeing bloodshed first-hand). To enforce the new-fangled law, God delegates authority to Noah to rule over his fellow men by enforcing the first criminal justice system (Genesis 9:6), paralleling how God gave Adam dominion over the animals. God was giving Noah the authority to establish rule amongst men.

  I wrote an article on the Noah's Flood account, and discuss how the WT abuses the story to justify their "no blood transfusion" policy, by scripture-twisting and misinterpreting Genesis 9:5-6, turning a BLESSING into an OBLIGATION.

  Do yourself a favor and reflect on this stuff, as it's a waste of time to remain captive to a concept, whether it's a lie coming from the JWs or some other flavor of a same lie.

  Adam
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  God sees the violence on earth and "solves" the problem with...more violence.

  God uses the Flood as a judgment due to man's sinfulness, then after killing everything on earth says he will never use a Flood as a judgment again because.... man is inherently sinful.

  I'm still grasping to see the life lesson in that.
• 

  adamah

  Yeah, VM44, most readers don't notice the parallel accounts, until it's pointed out to them. The final redactor seemingly didn't want to blend them into a single account, likely because the two versions contained different endings with each designed to stress a particular point, i.e. Genesis 8 ended by a poetic verse that fulfilled Noah's father's prophecy for Noah to be the liberator of mankind from God ever cursing the ground again, while Genesis 9 introduces the "no bloodshed" law with God delegating Divine Authority to enforce the newly-given law.

  Shirley said:

  God sees the violence on earth and "solves" the problem with...more violence.

  Well, God wanted to wipe the slate clean: as I pointed out in my article (link above), God's "fix" is actually a three-step process.

  (And of course, the story is based on a prevalent similar myth that existed long before the Genesis account was written, eg Sumerian Flood Account of Atrahasis.)

  Shirley said:

  God uses the Flood as a judgment due to man's sinfulness, then after illing everything on earth says he will never use a Flood as a judgment again because.... man is inherently sinful.

  God doesn't miss a trick, huh? The very same concept he uses to JUSTIFY the NEED for the Flood is the SAME REASON he offers afterwards to basically say, "Well, I give up, since I guess that's just the way I made them"! Pretty silly, isn't it? Not much Divine Foreknowledge on display there, and a CLASSIC example of a double back-flip flip-flop that would make any modern-day politician proud: 1) regretting making it all, then 2) regretting wiping it all out, so promising never to do it again (by making rainbows).

  Adam
• 

  RayPublisher

  Myself and billions of other Christians like the story.(Which in itself proves nothing other than the fact that billions of peopole like the story lol.

  I'm not gonna defend/argue any of it with you folks that hate the story.

  Comatose could you send me an email or give me yours, that would be easiest, as I hate the PM system here it b l o w s. Email me at [email protected] when you can.

  @ Adamah - I'm too busy washing my hair right now to read your article or care too much about your opinion based on the way that you couched your comment directed at me...
• 

  adamah

  Ray said:

  Myself and billions of other Christians like the story.(Which in itself proves nothing other than the fact that billions of peopole like the story lol.

  True dat. Billions think Justin Bieber is a great artist, too: don't make it true, does it?

  PS you "like" the story of God wiping out BILLIONS of people, just so eight could survive? Hmmm....

  I'm not gonna defend/argue any of it with you folks that hate the story.

  Who said anyone HATES it? Not me.

  I find the account FASCINATING, or I wouldn't have spent as much time reading Hebrew scholars writing on the account, studying histicographical books, studying the Hebrew words (including the Hebrew word-play that most readers are oblivious to, since its been long-lost in translation), the WT literature discussing the story, etc, all so I could write about it.

  And if nothing else, the Genesis account explains a lot about how some people end up in high-control groups, in the first place, since there's a basic human tendency towards appeals to authority (God killing humans if they don't do what He says, or worse: not even giving them a chance to repent?), and believing only what they WANT to believe (and that tendency doesn't just apply to religion, but even scientists are prone to the same human bias).

  Adam
• 

  mP

  Ray:

  I hope you dont reject advice from doctors when your sick because they are wearing the wrong colour sox .
• 

  Tiktaalik

  That's some sweet entertainment for you RayPublisher.

  The horrific deaths of millions of people along with the extinction of 99.99999999% of all other life.

  So entertaining. Such joy.
• 

  RayPublisher

  @ Adam - " PS you "like" the story of God wiping out BILLIONS of people, just so eight could survive? Hmmm...."

  That's your characterization of the account. That's not what I believe pal- but you don't really want to know what I believe you just want to tell us about your deep study of Hebrew scholars right?

  @ mP - No one but you knows what that comment means...

  @ Tiktaalik - You are also taking the statement that I like a story and leaping to conclusions about what I personally believe, in total ignorance. But you do have cool sunglasses on so that's a plus.
• 

  cantleave

  Ray as this is a "discussion" board, why don't you DISCUSS your beliefs here? You send a PM to comotose, why not make it public? Again I think you do some great stuff on struggle, but I get the feeling you just use this board to promote your site, rather than the "discussion" board that it is.

  If you fear that a discussion could undermine your belief system, maybe youir beliefs are not worth protecting. If they are worth protecting, then it maybe we could all benefit from them.