Office Building larger than Noah's Ark

by VM44 32 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • adamah
    adamah

    @ Adam - "PS you "like" the story of God wiping out BILLIONS of people, just so eight could survive? Hmmm...."

    That's your characterization of the account. That's not what I believe pal- but you don't really want to know what I believe you just want to tell us about your deep study of Hebrew scholars right?

    True, but you seemingly are forgetting that everyone here kinda already KNOWS why it appeals to others, since we at one time actually BELIEVED it, too (at some point in our lives, whether when small children or as grandparents on their death beds). We know how it made US feel, and unless you think your psychology is SOOOO much different from the rest of the silly mass of humanity, then we can guess that your reasons are similar to ours. I mean, that's the entire basis on which the study of human psychology is built.

    And you reinforce that point here:

    @ Tiktaalik - You are also taking the statement that I like a story and leaping to conclusions about what I personally believe, in total ignorance.But you do have cool sunglasses on so that's a plus.

    Nope, not "TOTAL ignorance" (as explained above).

    Paradoxically, that statement gives supportive confirmation as to WHY the story makes you feel good, just like it did for us: the story appeals to one's personal sense of narcissism, where the story is DESIGNED to appeal to those who project themselves into the story to identify with Noah, the ONE righteous man who beat the long-shot odds of surviving, the one-out-of-a-billion who was favored by God as the WINNER to be hand-picked to survive.

    You "like" the story for the same reason most of us did: it made us feel "special", warm and fuzzy inside, telling us that we too could beat the odds, if only we take the right steps to "keep Jehovah Happy", by preaching salvation (and as an aside, read my article on 2nd Peter and Noah: he didn't preach to anyone; the claim that Noah preached is another deception used to control people, since the book of Genesis points to the exact OPPOSITE, where God hand-picked him as the winner BEFORE even telling him a flood was to be held; the game was "rigged").

    So think about it for a minute:

    ALL readers of the account are told that THEY TOO can be the ones who beat the odds, when how can EVERYONE beat the odds? It's not far off from the famous carnie call, "Everyone's a winna!" which cannot possibly be true: how can EVERYONE win if NO ONE loses?

    Christians rationalize that away by saying that all the Worldies are the LOSERS, the fools who don't get to survive on the Ark/Armageddon. Yeah, sure: THE REST of the World are the dumb ones, the ones who can't figure it all out, but the JWs are the "lucky ones" who are the smart boys, the one who don't fall for the oldest scam in the book even when they're reading it in Genesis.

    That same appeal to one's sense of being "special" and the exceptions to the rule also explains why people buy megaball lottery tickets, despite the astronomical odds of actually winning (the odds are literally lower than being struck by lightning on a day when there's not a cloud in the sky). So why do people buy a lottery ticket? If they DO understand the odds (and not many have actually taken a statistics course, hence why it's often said that the lottery is the only tax people willingly stand in line to PAY) they enjoy the fantasy for a day or two, fantasizing what they're going to do IF they win, despite the incredible odds AGAINST winning. Hey, that's not a problem with me: if they're not diverting $ from from their kid's mouths to buy tickets and understand they're likely only buying a day-dream, then more power to them.

    The PROBLEM is that OTHER PEOPLE will exploit their inability to discriminate between fantasy and reality in order to control them like puppets: perhaps you've heard of groups like the JW's? Their methods RELY, are BUILT UPON, those who WANT to believe in the Bible.

    Reality doesn't care what we WISH it be: people once believed the Earth was flat, but the Earth didn't BECOME flat to accommodate their beliefs.

    Hey, it's your life and you can dig as deeply into your beliefs and question them just as much as the next guy as you like, but ONLY if you're willing to do: no one can (or SHOULD) FORCE you to do so, or do the thinking for you, since harboring delusions is everyone's right.

    However, it seems rather questionable for you to ask others to question THEIR beliefs about the JWs with the hidden-camera videos, recorded calls, etc. when you're seemingly not even willing to question your OWN beliefs in the plain light of day?

    Jesus and ancient men clearly were aware of the power of denial, noting how people are easily able to see splinters in other people's eyes while not even seeing the rafter in their OWN. His deeper point may have been how the presence of objects in their eye actually makes it much HARDER to perceive, which in turn biases one's perceptions; that's actually a well-known tendency of human nature which has been confirmed by scientific studies, called 'confirmation bias', seeing what we WANT to see, rather than what is.

    But like I say, it's no skin off my nose WHAT you believe; I'm just to help others to identify flaws in their thinking in order for them to liberate themselves from cults (where not all cults are JWs, and not all chains are placed on them by the WT, where some people place the shackles on themselves).

    Regards,

    Adam

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    the story is DESIGNED to appeal to those who project themselves into the story to identify with Noah, the ONE righteous man who beat the long-shot odds of surviving, the one-out-of-a-billion who was favored by God as the WINNER to be hand-picked to survive.

    ----

    I think that pretty much nails it. It's the same reason that Armageddon appeals to JWs and all other fundamentalist groups: each one feels convinced THEY are the favored ones and all the others will be destroyed.

    JWs typically argue that it matters not how sincere a non-JW may be in their beliefs; nor how much they read their Bible; nor how much they may be leading a good life and emulating Jesus. If they are not an active JW god will destroy them- no exceptions.

    Rarely does a JW ponder the flipside of the argument: what if, when Armageddon arrives, the JW finds out HE was in the wrong religion? No doubt the JW would use the same arguments that were dismissed by non-JWs as irrelevant: I was sincere; I was living a good life; I was trying to follow Jesus, etc.- that should count in my favor, right? How was I supposed to know I was in the "wrong" religion?

    It is pure Provincialism sprinkled with healthy doses of arrogance that makes a story like Noah and The Flood so appealing to a person.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    The story of Noah's Ark is popular, horrific destruction notwithstanding.

    Lots of children's tales are similarly horrific. Take Hansel and Gretel for instance, or Rapunzel.

    "Fairy tales are more than true -- not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten." - Gaiman

    Perhaps the take-away from the Noah's Ark story is that even in the face of epic wrath (an "Act of God"), human enterprise and ingenuity can find a way to survive.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    in the face of epic wrath (an "Act of God"), human enterprise and ingenuity can find a way to survive.

    Tower of Babel anyone?

    God's not a big fan of human ingenuity either.

  • adamah
    adamah

    And just to add onto what 'Shirley' said above:

    It is pure Provincialism sprinkled with healthy doses of arrogance that makes a story like Noah and The Flood so appealing to a person.

    As much as mankind's KNOWLEDGE has increased from when the Torah was written, fundamental human nature is still THE SAME; someone born in 2013 is just as prone to manipulation and control by clever men as easily as someone who was living in ancient Judah was, given the same enviromental conditions (eg education). The Torah is an extremely clever work, which REVEALS exactly how people were able to control others then, as now.

    In terms of evolution of the human brain, 3,000 yrs is but a BLINK of an eye, and the brain hasn't changed much since then: people just as prone to persuasions by carrying the same vulnerabilities, with the same mind-set as existed in ancient Israel, IF they desire to adopt an ancient World view.

    The problem is compounded when some place the Bible as the center of their morality, a very dangerous thing (when combined with a corresponding lack of education):

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/child-abuse/259261/1/The-Ghost-Rapes-of-Bolivia

    I'd recommend reading the story, as it's very scary statement about human nature, indeed....

    jgnat said-

    "Fairy tales are more than true -- not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten." - Gaiman

    Perhaps the take-away from the Noah's Ark story is that even in the face of epic wrath (an "Act of God"), human enterprise and ingenuity can find a way to survive.

    Or, the other possibility is to recognize that in the account of Noah, God IS the dragon, and beating Him is done by realizing it's only a fairy tale (and a poorly-constructed one at that, since it contains many continuity errors that SHOULD reveal it's fantasy-like construct).

    Adam

  • Comatose
    Comatose

    I think jgnat meant that just as kids realize Hansel and Gretel is a fairy tale but like it despite its scary and horrible plot lines, some might think of Noah's ark the same way. They get that it's not real, and if had been real it would be horrible, but because they view it as a fairy tale they like it..

    but, I don't mean to speak for her, that's just what I think she meant.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I'd go along with that, Comatose. The concept of a benevolent God is pretty new. The gods of old were capricious, unpredictable. Very much like the weather.

    Some stories are enjoyed for their shiver value.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    I think jgnat meant that just as kids realize Hansel and Gretel is a fairy tale but like it despite its scary and horrible plot lines, some might think of Noah's ark the same way.

    The difference is children do not take the "lessons" from Hansel and Gretel and use them to incite religious bigotry, exclusivm and rivalry with differing religious views. Unfortunately these Biblical stories often are the foundation for some of the terrible things that humans eventually do to other humans. Slavery in the United States in the 18th and 19th centuries was justified by many based on Biblical precedents. Whether or not those precedents were real or imagined, or the stories allegorical or not, made little difference to those who used them to their advantage.

    In the case of JWs, the WT Organization is often likened to Noah's Ark, and a person must be in the Organization to have god's protection. If you're not in it God will kill you. Furthermore, a JWs attitude toward non-JWs is influenced by this very concept. Not in the "Ark"? Too bad- you are a non-person.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    All the more foolish to treat the bible as a manual for modern life.

  • AndDontCallMeShirley
    AndDontCallMeShirley

    jgnat:

    The gods of old were capricious, unpredictable.

    And this makes a great point: as human thinking changes, the nature of their gods change.

    Coincidence? Hardly. Gods are the invention of the human mind.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit