by DATA-DOG 100 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
It says in the Bible that no one knows the hour or the day " !!!! She looked a little shame faced when I asked if they had only just found this in the Bible , cus I thought that it had been there all along !
I remember prior to 1975 when Clye and I asked about the scripture about not knowing the hour or the day, the response was, "But it doesn't say we don't know the year."
well it seems that maybe they have learnt the lesson about giving dates , but I have just come back from sitting in on my friend's study with a JW and the Armageddon is coming soon line is still being cast . Oh and I heard the story of Noah from the "Imitate Their Faith " book .Could it have been any plainer , the message of obedience and keeping away from bad influences ? Isolate yourself or you won't get into the ark !
Bookmark
I'm still in and a MS... guess What... I was assigned this part!
So.... I'm planing to focus on why the WT is not a prophet and that they make mistakes... Planting the seed of doubt!
"They seem to go back and forth between claiming to be inspired and then just being fallable men , I suppose according to the situaton at the time . "
Simple.
When a doctrine/teaching is a current view, and WT demands 100% acceptance of the doctrine, it's inspired. It came from the GB, "god's mouthpiece", and is beyond question true and above scrutiny.
When a doctrine is scrapped ("New Light") or a predicted event fails, only then does the WT become just imperfect men who made an honest mistake.
In the November 15, 1955
Watchtower President Knorr went so far as to say that God was the One who was responsible for the preaching of Rutherford’s message ! Under the heading, "Jehovah Is In His Holy Temple" it says
… Stirring up increasing interest in them, Jehovah caused to be preached from 1918 the startling public
message,
"Millions Now Living Will Never Die."---
But how did they feel when that did not occur in 1914? TheWatchTower of April 15, 1916, stated: "We believe that the dates have proven to be quite right. We believe that Gentile Times have ended." However, it candidly added: "The Lord did not say that the Church would all be glorified by 1914. We merely inferred it and, evidently, erred."
this reveals two things:
1. the WTS acknowledges they teach things that are not based on scripture/ God didn't tell us to say this,
2. they cannot just come out and say they made a mistake, instead they gloss it over with "inferred" and "evidently".
additionally, the 1914 date was not "inferred"- it was one of the core doctrines in WT theology, "God's date, not ours".
"There are some who make spectacular predictions of the world's end to grab attention and a following, but others are sincerely convinced that their proclamations are true. They are voicing expectations based on their own interpretationof some scripture text or physical event. They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah's name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility, they misinterpreted matters."
G 93 3-22, pp.3-4
So, if WT teachings are based "on their own interpretation", why is no questioning of these doctrines allowed ? In reality, WT doctrines are treated as inspired because a JW cannot question or scrutinze them without being charged with sedition and apostasy.
As shown above, WT has gone so far as to blame god for their failed end-time dates. WT needs to follow its own advice:
w72 11/1 p.643 Be Big Enough to Admit a Mistake
"Stumble" is just another word for "make a mistake." And though we all make mistakes, how difficult it is to admit making one! It goes against one’s pride. When one is charged with making a mistake one is prone to want to justify oneself, to make excuses, to shift blame onto others, or to deny having made the mistake. It takes bigness to admit a mistake, to shoulder the blame, to admit that one has been wrong, or used poor judgment.
Refusing to admit that one has made a mistake is like claiming infallibility
I'm scheduled to speak on this very topic at the Witnesses Now for Jesus convention in PA this October. Here's a little advance info from my notes in response to the Reasoning book quotations:
Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets.
Have you ever heard of an un-inspired prophet? In fact, in the Bible, it is not the prophet that is said to be “inspired,” it is the text of Scripture. However, if God is truly giving you a message by whatever means He chooses, then that is inspiration. To claim that you are speaking God’s words is to claim to be inspired – even if you don’t actually use the word “inspiration.” Remember Deuteronomy 18:20-22? The Law didn’t say that the prophet had to claim to be inspired, just that he spoke in the name of YHWH. The process by which God gives the message through His prophet is inspiration.
Also, the Watchtower uses all sorts of terms that mean the same thing, so it’s a distinction without a difference. They call themselves “Jehovah’s channel of communication.” They claim to be divinely guided and “spirit directed.” They say they are “God’s spokesmen” and that he has put his words into their mouths. With all these claims, do they really need to use the word, “inspired?”
They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.-Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6.
One Watchtower article even claimed that they could not be false prophets because “false prophets do not admit their mistakes.” Now, that’s just absurd. False prophets are the only kind of prophets who have mistakes to admit. True prophets get their messages directly from God. If your message is from God, it will never be mistaken! The big mistake is to claim to speak for God when He is not giving you the message.
It’s true that the apostles appeared to have expected Christ’s return within their lifetimes. But they never set a date for it, and they never attached God’s name to any predicted event, calling it “the Creator’s promise” or “God’s dates, not ours.” What makes a false prophecy is, not a mistaken expectation, but the claim that the prophecy originates with God. Now, there is a specific instance in the Bible that some Witnesses will use to try to demonstrate that the apostles taught false teachings in the name of Jesus, and thus to argue that merely teaching falsely in God’s name doesn’t necessarily make one a false prophet. Their conclusion, of course, is that if it was OK for the apostles to teach falsely in Jesus’ name, then it’s also OK for their organization to do so. I’m referring to the account at John 21:20-23. Here’s what it says:
Peter turned and saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them, the one who also had leaned back against him during the supper and had said, "Lord, who is it that is going to betray you?" When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!" So the saying spread abroad among the brothers that this disciple was not to die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he was not to die, but, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you?"
In other words, Jesus was telling Peter that it was none of his business what would happen to John, but that Peter needed to keep his eyes on Jesus. I have had a JW try to tell me that the apostles went around teaching, on Jesus’ authority, that John would not die before the return of Christ. But the text doesn’t say that, does it? All it says is that the saying spread among the brothers, not that it was taught by the apostles. All that had to happen was that Jesus’ actual words were somehow relayed among the brothers, and then the misunderstanding of those words became a rumor that took on a life of its own. That’s far different than saying that the apostles themselves taught such a thing, claiming Jesus’ authority to do so. So there is no parallel between this event and the false prophecies of the JW organization.
when Clyde and I asked about the scripture about not knowing the hour or the day, the response was, "But it doesn't say we don't know the year."
From the Baker Exegetical Commentary on the NT (p. 588):
The expression "that day and hour" is a general time indicator, not a precise expression implying a specific time of day (cf [Matthew] 7:22; 10:19; 24:42, 44, 50; 25:13; 26:45).
"That day" is an expression used in Matthew (and elsewhere, e.g. Heb 10:25) to refer to the eschatalogical "day of the Lord." "Hour" is an idiom that corresponds with our use of "time." (You could replace "hour" in Mt 24:36 with "time" and get the modern equivalent meaning.) Thus, contrasting 'knowing the year' but not knowing the "day and hour" reflects a modern, stop-watch style misunderstanding of the phrase.
Not knowing "that day and hour" in Matthew 24:36 is in contrast to Jesus statement in Matthew 24:34 that, "this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. In Matthew 24:34 Jesus does profess to know "that day and hour" when "these things" will occur (within "this generation"). But in Matthew 24:36 Jesus professes to not know "that day and hour" when his parousia will occur. This is another indication that Matthew 24:4-35 and 24:36-25:46 are referring to two different time periods.
NeonMadman:
To claim that you are speaking God’s words is to claim to be inspired – even if you don’t actually use the word “inspiration.”
WT needs to consult a dictionary as they obviously do not understand this simple point. They like the absolute authority that claiming God's direction gives them but quickly bail out of the concept when end-time dates fail and doctrines are re-worked or discarded.
By their own admission WT clearly states its message comes directly from Jehovah and they are under the influence of Holy Spirit at all times- which is unequivocally by definition, "inspiration":
"When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of the faithful and discreet slave at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. (Matt. 24:45; 1 Cor. 2:13) The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. (Acts 15:6) What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all." -Watchtower 2010 Jul 15 pp.22-23
"We will also increase our joy if we prayerfully and diligently study God's spirit - inspired Word and Christian publications prepared under the spirit's guidance." -Watchtower 1992 Mar 15 pp.21-22
"[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14
"In 1942 the "faithful and discreet slave" guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up."Watchtower 1960 Jul 15 p. 444
"It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370
"Under the direction of the holy spirit, Branch Committees recommend mature, spiritual men to serve as circuit and district overseers. After being appointed directly by the Governing Body, they serve as traveling overseers. Traveling overseers submit reports to the branch office. With the help of the holy spirit and the inspired Scriptures." Watchtower 1990 Mar 15 p.20
"Our Leader uses this Governing Body to appoint qualified men - whether spirit-anointed or not - as elders in the local congregations. In this regard, the holy spirit, which Jehovah has given Jesus authority to employ, plays a pivotal role. (Acts 2:32, 33) First of all, these overseers must meet the requirements set out in God's Word, which was inspired by holy spirit. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9; 2 Peter 1:20, 21) The recommendations and appointments are made after prayer and under the guidance of the holy spirit. Additionally, the individuals appointed give evidence of producing the fruitage of that spirit. How reassuring to know that Jesus Christ provides leadership to his disciples today through the Governing Body, the holy spirit, and the angels!" Watchtower 2002 Mar 15 p.14
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This approach taken by WT also, directly and indirectly, places the blame for failures on God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Logically, if these three entities are responsible for everything the WT teaches and does, then they are also to blame when doctrines, policies and end-time dates are obviously incorrect.
