by frankiespeakin 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
BackseatDevil, it's interesting how you can know nothing about me--my life, circumstances, my motivations or actions--and yet you feel you can judge me based on one post.
Fortunately, my self esteem is not contingent upon your opinion.
Trust me, I'm fine. I have a very good reason for doing what I do. I am not a liar. If the JWs choose to believe I'm THIS when I'm actually THAT, then fine. I'm really OK with it.
Cheers,
Oubliette
@Backseat
Being impeccable w/ your word....the entire house of cards would crumble....
The way I see it everybody's entitled to an opinion and when it comes down to making a decision you gotta go with what is best for you, and your loved ones, not based or biased by other peoples opinion.
| Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one, but nobody wants to look at the other guy's. -- Hal Hickman or Opinions are like assholes . Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks." |
@Oubliette As a Witness one is taught to have an answer first, then find "proof" in order to support it, I completely understand where the idea of finding proof first and develping an answer based off that would be confusing to you.
It's okay. Many of us have been though this. I get it.
In review... I am not judging, simply calling you're (metaphor of an) abusive relationship what it is. You think you are the exception and that's okay too... EVERYONE always thinks they are the exception. It's a very typical part of all this (maybe you are, who knows?). But please understand that me pointing to something and saying "I have seen this many times, this is what this is" is NOT the same as passing judgement. In fact, it's the exact opposite... it's empathetic and understanding. So in this case, defensiveness toward someone who is just pointing out sociological patterns isn't necessarily helping your case here.
Simply put, it is what it is. Nothing more.
**SIDE NOTE: pinion would be "I think you are a bad person for staying in that wacked out church" or "I don't believe you". In my previous comment, I stated a very typical observance: Presentation of something in order to deceive (whatever the reason) is lying. One may not look at it that way, and through justification may come up with a reason for not calling it "lying" but by pure definition it is deception. One can use a variety of semantics and idioms to change the color of picture (another JW technique) but I was just presenting the bare bone honesty of the situation, stripped of the fluff. It's not even specific to this ONE instance... it's gneral application to a very repetative human behavioral pattern.
Observance is not always opinion, and there is no judgement call on my observances.
My actual opinion is quite harsh and douchey to the point of arrogance. So I work hard to keep it to just the "knowns" based off what is presented and leave opinions, projection, and the dramatic out of it. If you want my opinion, I will share it... but (1) in one's development as a human being traveling on this globe it would do WAY more harm than good and (2) it will probably get me banned from the site.
EDIT: me writing " you're not really advancing the journey of life iside your heart or increasing connectivity to the world around you." is assumption and could be interpreted (the way it is written) as opinion, but unless you're a Wall St. broker the probability of this being correct is very high. It's still assumptive however. I will apologize for that.
As far as honesty, I feel honesty to yourself 1st over honesty to others in a destructive cult who are lead and guided by the Governing Body to root out all those that are not loyal to the Corporation. It's a human game, we are a game playing species, and in games the clever/best player wins, be it by deciet(a survival skill useing deception) or some other skill, natural or learned.
So I see nothing wrong in useing deceit, a skill that has its pitfalls, but is part of the human genetic inheritance and if used properly has its merits, unless one is limited in black and white thinking were something is catagorized as either right or wrong with no varying shades inbetween. A childish veiw of the world with limiting options, is the thought that all deceit is wrong.
BackseatDevil, I'm not confused, I'm not "in" that religion and I don't think "I am the exception."
You completely have no idea what you're talking about.
In addition, you're an ass.
@ frankiespeakin "So I see nothing wrong in useing deceit, a skill that has its pitfalls, but is part of the human genetic inheritance and if used properly has its merits, unless one is limited in black and white thinking were something is catagorized as either right or wrong with no varying shades inbetween. A childish veiw of the world with limiting options, is the thought that all deceit is wrong."
On a more general scope, I do completely agree with this. There are several instances where deceit can be a helpful mechanism of ambulation. It might be noted that once one gets comfortable with that mechanism it eventally (mostly) leads to an "oh what a tangle web we weave" scenario. That's just a tendency, not some rule. Sporadically used in extreme cases (outside fight/flight/freeze situations) it can be helpful, I totllay understand that.
Black/white limitations is something the JWs base their lives on. Everything is either Jehovah or Satan. Once a person frees themselves of that the rich vivid color of everything in between and beyond can shine... and there is a lot to shine. Plus, there is so much to... just... LEARN, you know?
@Oubliette " In addition, you're an ass."
It is my opinion that is probably the most truthful thing you've written on this thread, because yes I am.
Just an opinion, though.
I have always thought whenever I read about totalitarian regimes why would you tell the truth to these monsters? Why not keep things on a need to know basis and protect yourself and your family? What is the big deal about telling the truth to people who torture and imprisson?
So why be honest to this evil cult? If you need to take a little longer to get out with your family intact and then live a happy life away from these people who lie through their teeth in every Watchtower, go for it. Good luck to you.
Based on my observations of the past 12 years... there are no black or white, right or wrong absolutes. Each case - each family - is individual and the one who knows ttatt must find the way which is best tailored to their particular situation to helped their loved ones. Finding that right way, or ways, is the hard part.
I know a man who's stuck in it for his wife, children and grandchildren. He's making progress with them, but it's frustrating to the hilt - how he remains sane in what I see as a brave and courageous attempt, is beyond me. He's doing it for love of family, in a way he thinks will best reach them. He has my support. :)
I know another man who 'went out in a blaze of glory' - and it didn't go well. He lost his wife and children, but has fought and won some ensuing battles. He did it for love, too. He loved his wife, but the wt turned her against him... and he loved truth more. Good thing - he was allowed to see his boys, which is not always the case in jw divorces, and over the years his truthfulness has edged them out of the wt, too. But what a harrowing ordeal. He had and still has my support, too. :)
You have to do what you think is best. Don't make excuses to anyone. Ignore peoples' blind opinions. If someone gives you 'friendly advice', but has never walked one step in your shoes - you have no obligation to use or even accept their advice. You have nothing to justify when you're doing it for love - and wanting your family out of this horrible cult is LOVE and nothing but.
And may you have every SUCCESS!
w
I had it easy, comparitively, it was just lonely old me decieved by that cult. If my mother or sisters had been witnesses, I'd probably have chosen to stay in long enough to get them out.
Gaslighting. Look it up.
