Is the Bible really out of date?

by jam 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • jam
    jam

    An interesting read The Emporia Gazette: www.emporiagazzette.com

    The Israelities needed Moral Codes, Civil codes and Holiness codes.

    When the Jews were getting ready to go to the promise land, God

    had to prepare them to become a nation. The Israelites had been slaves

    for centuries; they had no knowledge of government and no unique

    culture or religion. Thus in addition to the Moral code concerning

    right and wrong, God had to establish a Civil code and Holiness code.

    OK, the Moral Code: these are the principles established by God and

    considered to be universally applicable to everyone for all times.

    Example, "thou shalt not murder". This applies to everyone from the time

    of Adam until this present age. It is usually stated as a command to do this

    or not do that. (don,t understand this part), This is also where many

    Christians put the prohibaition against homosexually.

    The Civil Code: This is how the Jewish nation was supposed to be run.

    It describes how to deal with disobedience, with the penalties and how

    the judgement is carried out.

    Last the Holiness Code: This is where all the apparently "questionable"

    laws come in, such as not wearing clothing made with two type of

    fabric, not eating pork or Catfish(where is that in the bible, catfish),

    not trimming the hair around the temple and etc.

    So, which OT laws or codes if any do you think God would still in

    force today. Why do some claim that the law against homosexuality

    are still in force today but the law about eating catfish or pork is not.

    HIS reasoning: hold on to your seat, this is good.

    In order to understand what was nailed to the cross, we must make

    a distinction between th moral law and civil code.

    For instance, we don't have to obey the Jewish dietary laws. But we

    all must obey God's moral laws " you shall not muder".

    We don't have to obey the civil laws of the Jews which said a

    homosexual should be stoned, but we do have to obey the law

    against commmitting homosexuality if it is a moral law.

    Therefore, the reason some Christians are not supportive of

    the gay lifestyle is not because they are discriminating and

    intolerant, but because they believe that it is a violation of

    the moral law of God which was not done away with when

    Jesus ushered in the age of grace.

    So much bull!!!!

  • adamah
    adamah

    Jam said:

    Example, "thou shalt not murder". This applies to everyone from the time of Adam until this present age.

    Yeah, that's what 99% of Christians believe (esp JWs), but it's simply not true.

    Per the Torah, Jehovah didn't prohibit the spilling of blood until AFTER the Flood, in Genesis 9 (which also explains the lax punishment God dispensed to Cain/Lamech, etc, since as stunning as it may seem, the Torah indicates that God FORGOT to make murder a sin, so Cain got off with light punishment, and Lamech even bragged about how he'd be MORE protected than Cain, since he killed TWO men. The idea was to demonstrate the grace of God, but it intead makes God appear to be a bit of a boob who lacks Divine foresight).

    The well-known version of "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is from the 10 commendments, which was handed down from Jehovah to Moses and accepted by the Israelites when they agreed to be Jehovah's Chosen People, bound to follow the laws under the Old Covenant agreement (in Exodus 20). That was simply a Hebrew version of the old Noahide restriction against bloodshed, which appeared in Genesis 9 and applied to ALL mankind (Noah's offspring). HOWEVER, the no bloodshed rule FIRST appeared in Genesis 9.

    In fact, prohibiting murder WAS God's solution to the "evil in the hearts of men" problem, where murder and bloodshed had gotten so out of hand that God decided that it was a good idea to wipe the slate clean with a mass-near-extinct event of humanity during the Flood, and make up for the "whoopsie!" oversight by adding a new "no blood spilling" rule (and delegating Divine authority to mankind to enforce the rule).

    I discuss it in a blog article here:

    http://awgue.weebly.com/does-jehovahs-witnesses-blood-policy-reflect-they-understand-noahs-flood.html

    Adam

  • Perry
    Perry
    Why do some claim that the law against homosexuality are still in force today but the law about eating catfish or pork is not.

    Because homosexuality is a deviation from man's original design. Dispite the current homosexual band wagon, Jesus did, in fact, speak against homosexuality. On numerous occasions, Jesus condemned the sins of adultery (Matthew 19:18), sexual immorality (Matthew 19:9) and fornication (Matthew 15:19). These terms describe any type of sexual intercourse that is not within the confines of a marriage as ordained by God. Jesus then proceeded to define exactly what God views as a morally permissible marriage. He stated:

    Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate (Matthew 19:4-6).

    There is no such thing as a practicing gay christian. That's an oxymoron similar to say a "Christian thief".

  • mP
    mP

    Jam, you have made overreaching generalisations that are simply untrue.

    JAM:

    OK, the Moral Code: these are the principles established by God and

    considered to be universally applicable to everyone for all times.

    mP:

    Nobody lives both those laws now. We dont have slaves, stone our children and so on.

    JAM:

    So, which OT laws or codes if any do you think God would still in

    force today

    mP:

    God didnt write any of those laws. Priests and leaders wrote them for their own advantage. The laws of Moses are a fraud. There is no kindness, wisdom or anything useful in them. If you dont believe me would you want to live under them ? If so go live in IRan or Saudi Arabia, theres not much difference between Moses law and Sharia law.

  • jam
    jam

    Thanks Adam, I will read your blog on the subject. MP:I did not make those overreaching generalization, I do not agree with any of it. This was from an article I read. Like I said it,s all bull. What's moral and what is not, what holy and what is not.

  • jam
    jam

    It was necessary for God to spell out to the Jews, to make

    them a special people for his name, set them apart from

    all others, "Do not kill". Shouldn't they had known it's wrong

    to kill. Slaves or no slaves you just don't go around killing people.

    Maybe that's why they didn't have a problem killing others

    on their way to the promise land.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Perry said-

    There is no such thing as a practicing gay christian. That's an oxymoron similar to say a "Christian thief".

    Yup, by all accounts, Jesus was a Torah-observant Jew, and said he didn't come to change a word of the Torah, but to fulfill it (i.e. the Jewish Messianic prophecies, found in the Nevi'im). The Torah demanded death penalty for men who lay with men, and hence Jesus was AOK with stoning homosexuals to death (even though despite what the Gospels imply, Jews were not allowed to exercise capital punishment over fellow Jews in Palestine in Jesus' time, having long before become subjects of the Roman Empire).

    It just boggles my mind why gays would grasp at straws here, clinging for a show of approval from a religion which condemns their lifestyle and will NEVER approve without massive rewriting of history and redaction of the Bible (wait: I guess that answers my own question; Christians are used to suppressing any evidence, however obvious it is, that doesn't fit into THEIR concept of God and are masters at creating God in THEIR image). Everyone else does it: why not gays, too?

    Adam

  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    The Bible is timeless and does not change, nor does the Father or Jesus. Of course... and hence Jesus was AOK with stoning homosexuals to death , of course not. He didn't want the Jews to stone the woman who was the adulterer right? Why? Because they would not have the chance to repent [probably]. If he is the judge, why would he want anyone to kill for him? Never happen. Just my opinion. Regards to all, DC

  • Mahtaw
    Mahtaw

    I feel the bible is morally bankrupt. A holy man gives his daughters up to the crowd for rape. Gods men at war were instructed to kill everyone but keep the virgins for themselves. The bible is not my moral compass.

  • jam
    jam

    Question for whoever like to try. Jesus, how he felt about gays.

    Matt:19;12 He mention three types of eunuchs, who are the

    ones that come from his mother's womb? It's rarity for males

    even in Jesus day.

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