I was referring to Matthew 25:31, which is referring to the JUDGING work of Jesus, where he is separating the sheep from the goats, ON THE BASIS of their works, sending some to eternal hellfire and others to Heaven ON THE BASIS of what they've done for their fellow man. It's right there, in black-and-white!
Yes, i know the sheep and the goats. My point was in response to what you seemed to be saying... that christians do good works for a reward, rather than out of love. If that was not what you were saying, then there is no argument here.
Really? Here's your original response again:
TEC said-
And of course other people give, atheist and theist alike. (not everyone who has faith in Christ gives for the expectation of a reward... some give because they have the law of love in their hearts... and some give simply because they love HIM, and He says to give, so they do... no thought of a reward other than acting on love for Him - and those He loves)
It's stretching credibility to claim that his followers do it out of LOVE for him, where Jesus made it CLEAR that if you DO give to others, you get a reward; if you DON'T, you get to bake your soul in Hellfire for an eternity.
(Didn't Jesus elsewhere say that you should NOT fear those who can only kill the body, but those who can damn your soul to Hell? He was referring to himself!)
Perhaps if someone holds a gun to your head and tells you to do what they say or else they will kill you, you MIGHT be able to excuse it in your own mind by telling yourself that you're really doing it "out of love" and NOT out of self-preservation. No one but a fellow hostage buys that rationalization, though, since that's the POINT of the kidnapping: using death threats to manipulate others into doing something they wouldn't do "out of the goodness of their hearts".
Heiress Patty Hearst learned ALL about Stockholm Syndrome by experiencing it first-hand, even if she only learned about the psychological phenomenon after her kidnappers were killed. Matthew 25 is a CLASSIC example of being made "an offer you cannot refuse", which is EXACTLY the tactic that a Mafia don who uses EXACTLY that same kind of "offer".
I was referring to the fact that God "doesn't provide" a JW family with a substitute sacrificial family member at the last moment, to step into the place of the family member to be shunned.
Well why would He? They're choosing to shun their child based on the GB... not based on Christ (who shows us God), so the loss of their child is on them (the jws and the one they listen to, but they're the ones choosing to listen to the GB)
No, it's on THEM alone, as they're independent moral agents with their OWN free will; they, despite an HONEST belief and faith in God, are simply WRONG. FAITH is wrong, since it's a dangerous, flawed approach. The danger is the faithful are easily manipulated and exploited by OTHERS who to control them, namely by those controlling the projected IMAGE of God.
However, it's the individuals fault for accepting beliefs ON FAITH in God, which fulfills a selfish narcisstic need for such a being to exist that places them at risk, in the first place. They share in responsibility for the harm THEY cause, allowing themselves to be manipulated by others.
As an ex-JW, you SHOULD be able to see that, right? The entire chain of wrong-thinking lead to bad decisions, since it RELIES on one's acceptance of the concept of FAITH in GOD; the JWs are merely one example of a group that exploits blind trust that others are willing to place in God(s), just as other religions do, with it ALL being driven by a fear of punishment for an eternity and a desire for such a being to exist.
Surely though you can recognize and applaud their faithfulness to Jehovah, for their willingness to sacrifice their own family members? Paul wouldn't have bothered to mention the "men of faith" and Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac for no good reason, since demonstrating one's faith is still required under the New Covenant?
Their faithfulness to what men tell them 'jehovah' wants, you mean... because it does not demonstrate faith in Christ or His Father, who do not ask such things.
LOL! After you just read the account in Genesis, read Paul's citing it in Hebrews, you now are DENYING that God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac? THE BIBLE ITSELF makes it clear that family members are dispoable, and God DEMANDS to be placed at the top of the loyalty priority list. Jesus SAID he came to tear families apart, not to bring family unity. Did you miss that part, too?
Your voice of Jesus (who has the power to resurrect) asks you to kill someone; no details are given. The act might be a demonstration of the greatest love of all on your behalf, i.e. laying down your own life to save others, since you don't know the outcome and you might be killed. Thus, it has to be completed as a matter of faith.
What do you do?
Re-read my response to the first time you asked. The resurrection is not a new element to your question, and my response hasn't changed... and I'm not going to repeat myself. Just go ahead and re-read. A simple yes or no would suffice. You're not shying away from an opportunity to DEMONSTRATE your faith, or are you questioning the patently-obvious immorality of the answer all believers know you MUST profess? Adam
