Question regarding Faith...(adamah)

by tec 210 Replies latest jw friends

tec

No, I don't live it, have never said it, never meant... and certainly have never said that someone who does not have Christ will be the opposite of those things (just the opposite... some have the law (of love) on their hearts, naturally... theist OR atheist)
It is also rare that something is brought out to challenges that HE is of love... and if someone does, then I would counter it with something that they could see, as has been shown ME. The usual thing anyone brings out as a challenge is that God is not loving. To which I respond... if you want to know God, then you must look at HIS Truth, HIS Image... who is Christ. Rather than at any other image, thinking that you can understand it without looking at Christ for the truth of the matter. I don't know how any christian could possibly argue with that, or why they would even want to. Because those are not my words, but the words of the one they claim to follow and/or belong to. And if anyone cannot hear that truth from Him in spirit, then they can look at least look at what he is written to have said.
"If you have seen me, you have seen my Father."
"If you know me, you know my Father also."
"No one knows the Father except the Son, and those the Son chooses to reveal Him to."
"I am the Truth, the Life, the Resurrection."
I am sure that there is an insulting side to what I just posted to those who might think that they can get to His Father through some other means than Him... but that argument would be with Him, not me.
Peace,
tammy
cofty

Debating Tammy is like playing tennis without a net - and with lines that only get painted after the ball bounces. (and of course Tammy is also the only umpire)
adamah

TSDF said-

If anyone is hearing voices in their head, they are always mentally ill. It does not matter if that person claims the voice is God, Jesus, or the neighbor's dog. That is NOT spirituality, that is pyschosis!
Tec, get medical help before you hurt someone.

Yeah, that was the common belief for quite sometime, but over the past 20 yrs or so there's been increasing evidence to support that psychoses are NOT always associated with mental illness; some people are able to get control of their voices, and maintain a normal life, just being a different way of perceiving; it's just another fluke of the mystery of life. Many people who perceive they are hearing voices actually ARE, and it's been confirmed via MRI studies.
Here's a good site to get up to speed:
http://www.hearing-voices.org/
TEC said-
Now that is not going to work on me, because THAT is the voice of a stranger. The voice of someone who does not know my Lord.
Damn straight I don't "know your Lord": did you forget that I'm an ATHEIST, and don't believe in ANY deities, minor or major, yours or anyone else's concepts alike?
The voice of someone who does not understand that God PROVIDED the sacrifice in the account of Abraham, and does not need sacrifice from US.
So how do you explain the behavior of the Jews during the first Temple period who offered animal sacrifices, saw it destroyed by Babylonians in 587BC, returned and rebuilt the Temple so they could reinstitute the practice of animal sacrifices, and it stood for what, almost 700 MORE YEARS until 70CE when it was destroyed by Romans, remaining in service for all that time?
How do you explain Jesus' visiting the Temple many times during his life, and NEVER ONCE saying, "Hey, My Dad says you guys don't really have to do all that animal killing stuff, since He'll provide a sacrifice FOR YOU!" Have you forgotten about Jesus directing a leper he had just healed to offer a sacrifice?
Mark 1:44
"See that you don't tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them."
(Where the Law of Moses refers to Leviticus 14, which explains the lengthy 8-day procedure involving the animal sacrifices of birds, lambs, etc.)
Not even animal sacrifices, as HE said here:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire - but my ears you have opened - burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. Then I said, "here I am, I have come - it is written about me in the scroll. I desire to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart." Psalms 40: 6-8
You REALLY don't KNOW that Psalms was supposedly written by King David, who supposedly lived 1,000BC, a millenia BEFORE the practice of animal sacrifices was forced to be discontinued by the destruction of the Temple in 70CE? So why were King David's words so widely ignored?
But you won't hear that. Just as you won't hear that it is Christ who shows us God... not the OT, not any writing, not religion, not man.
Again: atheist here? Remember? Not a believer in the God concept?
We are told... TOLD... to test the inspired expressions, to be sure that they come from God. Because not every spirit IS from God, and so not every 'voice' (internal or otherwise) IS from God. Well, if those inspired expressions speak against anything Christ taught... then they are against God... and so are not from God. If those inspired expressions are not from love, as Christ shows love (Him being the Truth)... then they are not from God. Do not listen. Whether that is an internal voice, an external voice, or a man/woman/religion claiming to represent Christ and God.
Hello? I'm an atheist?
Test against Christ... test against love... test against what is written, but always looking to Christ first and foremost to understand the truth of what is written. (even if for now, that is just looking at what HE is written to have said and done)
Remember? Atheist here? So Ixnay on the Aithfay and Esusjay and Odgay?
Verily, verily I say to you, I'm truly don't believe in imaginary beings, so your advice is just meaningless blather to me (maybe it has some placebo effect on those placated and soothed by wishful "uplifting" sentiments).
See, the thing is you and many others are missing out on experiencing the beauty and wonder of what IS all around you, just WAITING to be discovered and learned about in a meaningful way, if ONLY you'd open your physical eyes to see it and experience it (rather than keeping your eyes tightly shut to better hear the voice of Jesus, which is coming from YOUR OWN mind).
Adam
adamah

Cofty said-
Debating Tammy is like playing tennis without a net - and with lines that only get painted after the ball bounces. (and of course Tammy is also the only umpire)
Well, I DO think I detect some evidence of TEC's willingness to consider outside evidence, so perhaps it's NOT as bad as you'd characterize (eg she's seemingly allowing lines to be painted, although she still wants to be the umpire).
Adam
tec

Damn straight I don't "know your Lord": did you forget that I'm an ATHEIST, and don't believe in ANY deities, minor or major, yours or anyone else's concepts alike?
I'm not going to quote every time you state this. I am just going to say "EXACTLY".
So WHY would I listen to you over Christ? You don't know Him. You look, as many do, to the OT to understand God (and then apply that to Christ)... instead of looking at Christ to understand God. I mean, if they had all truth to begin with... then THE Truth would not have had to come to TEACH them.
Why would I listen to what you have to say about God... over what Christ teaches about His Father?
Why would I listen to what you think faith is (based on your interpretation of one passage in the bible)... over what Christ has taught about faith?
As for sacrifice, the law required them to be made... same as the law required many things that God did not NEED or even DESIRE. Like the law on divorce...given because the people were hardhearted and could not hear or DO what was TRUE. So the people needed something to SEE, or some allowance made for them. Or something physical to represent the spiritual, so perhaps they will be able to grasp the spiritual when presented with it. What they understood and did... and the Truth that God desired or needed... is not necessarily the same thing.
Because here is another:
"I desire MERCY, not sacrifice; and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
This passage should put this into some perspective as well, regarding fasting:
Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppresed free and break EVERY yoke?
Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter --
when you see the naked to cloth him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness will go before you,
and the glory of hte LORD will be your rear guard.
Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help and he will say: Here am I.

See, the thing is you and many others are missing out on experiencing the beauty and wonder of what IS all around you, just WAITING to be discovered and learned about in a meaningful way, if ONLY you'd open your physical eyes to see it and experience it
And what makes you think that I (and many others) are missing out on experiencing the beauty and wonder of what is all around me, just waiting to be discovered? What makes you think my physical eyes are closed, just because my spiritual eyes might be open?
That makes no sense. Its like saying IF one's spiritual ears are open, they cannot enjoy the wonder of a symphony or the ocean (or some good rock, lol)
What a statement, lol.
Peace,
tammy
ablebodiedman

You have stated (and others have agreed and stated the same) that faith is not based on evidence, or it is not faith to begin with
I have been thinking about this myself very recently.
For instance I used to have "faith" that Armageddon would happen based only on the evidence of words that I had "faith" in which are written in the bible.
Now that I know that Armageddon has already started many years ago I no longer have any "faith" that it will happen.
I now know that the things Jesus Christ said would happen are really happening!
The evidence is no longer restricted to written words.
"Faith" is something that is becoming no longer necessary!
abe
cofty

Yes that's the next stage.
Believers go from talking about faith to claiming they "know" stuff is true.
Mr Fool

Adamah, thanks for your reflections on my post.
"Faith demands accepting a belief without any perceivable evidence...." That´s a very interesting view of it....
What really IS the difference between an "unshakeable belief" and "faith"? The faith is more confident? Confidence that grows with a conviction (for example that Jehova exists) but NOT with "human thinking"?
Adamah, please straightening up my confuced questions
cofty

"overwhelming evidence" that contradictory apocalyptic ramblings in a 2000 year old book is actually worth planning your life around.
I think you have hijacked the word evidence.
ablebodiedman

"overwhelming evidence" that contradictory apocalyptic ramblings in a 2000 year old book is actually worth planning your life around.
I think you have hijacked the word evidence.
The overwhelming evidence has driven any thought of skepticism beyond reasonable limits.
What Jesus Christ said would happen is really happening!
What has been hijacked is my faith.
My "faith" is becoming redundant!
abe

Question regarding Faith...(adamah)

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