Question regarding Faith...(adamah) (page 11)

latinthunder

No. I am saying that Christ is the truth... follow HIM. WTS says they have the truth and/or they are the truth, and to follow them.

You said that Christ is the truth and you personally listen to him, therefore, you HAVE the truth. The Watchtower plays the same game. They claim that if you pray and meditate on their claims you'll get confirmation from Jehovah's "active force." You and the Watchtower both falsely claim that your methodologies are reproducible despite evidence to the contrary.

I don't want anyone following ME.

This is ALSO what the Watchtower claims. You're a mirror image of them, you just haven't had as much time to progress.

nugget

If you believe the bible account then although the disciples had evidence of miracles and saw Jesus in the flesh they had to have faith that the things he had promised would come to pass. This would have been relevent especially when disciples were executed and christians persecuted.

Those thousands that died for their faith without heavenly visions had to have faith that their sacrifice meant something and was not just a waste of a life.

tec

If you believe the bible account then although the disciples had evidence of miracles and saw Jesus in the flesh they had to have faith that the things he had promised would come to pass. This would have been relevent especially when disciples were executed and christians persecuted.

Nutshell.

Though they had evidence for their faith (Christ, and all He taught and did, as well as the resurrection)... they still had faith in Him by having faith that all He promised would come to pass.

Peace to you,

tammy

Nika Bee

If you believe the bible account then although the disciples had evidence of miracles and saw Jesus in the flesh they had to have faith that the things he had promised would come to pass. This would have been relevent especially when disciples were executed and christians persecuted.

Nutshell.

Though they had evidence for their faith (Christ, and all He taught and did, as well as the resurrection)... they still had faith in Him by having faith that all He promised would come to pass.

This is not how I understood nugets comment. I understood it in the following way, though I might be wrong:

Assume you believe in the bible account. Then the disciple had evidence for past facts (because they saw and heard them). But they had to have faith that the things in the future would happen. For these things there was no evidence, because it was the future.

I personally would say (always under the hypothesis that one believes in the bible account): Ther were some past facts, for which they didn't need any faith, because, according to the bible they were facts, they had evidence for these facts, by seeing them. These facts served as a base for their faith in future events - for which they didn't have any evidence, because it hadn't happened yet.

But I am not a scolar on this subject. I have a feeling, that it just comes down to how the word "faith" is defined. And as long as there is not a unique definition understood by everyone, it might be pointless to argue about it.

adamah

If you believe the bible account then although the disciples had evidence of miracles and saw Jesus in the flesh they had to have faith that the things he had promised would come to pass. This would have been relevent especially when disciples were executed and christians persecuted.

And that's exactly what the second-hand tales recorded in the Bible are designed to demonstrate:

FAITH is needed for FUTURE EVENTS that are PROMISED to happen, but have not yet come to pass, whether it's Christ's visible return (which would kill two birds with one stone, also confirming God's existence) or Jesus' ability to feed his apostles, or Peter's ability to walk on water. FAITH requires having NO DOUBT, or the promised event may not happen.

Now it's trivially easy to constuct a fictional account designed to demonstrate a certain message in many different forms: that's exactly what fiction authors do!

The faith construct contains a built-in convenient "Get out of jail free" card to justify prophetic failure(s), since the loophole is to "blame the victim" for their failure to have sufficient faith in order for the promised event to come to fruition, and the Bible constantly brow-beats and destroys believers ego to put that in that frame of mind.

Those thousands that died for their faith without heavenly visions had to have faith that their sacrifice meant something and was not just a waste of a life.

Which is the same faith required by JWs today, to continue wasting their entire lives based on an ancient lie, since the most valuable thing we ALL possess is TIME. Their FAITH keeps them trapped in a religion with a demanding lifestyle, and telling others to "just follow Jesus" is just another way to perpetuate the same dynamic of denying one's personal responsibility to take control of one's own life, rather than worshipping and sacrificing one's time and energy to an imaginary God.

Adam

jgnat

tec, do you think I am devoid of faith because I allow doubt?

zound

I put faith in Christ... and let Him teach me. And of course, he is right there in front of our 'faces', and was all along. "I am the Truth. Listen to ME. Follow ME." Not ourselves, not men, not religion... just Him.

I think I might be repeating myself, but it's worth repeating. Your descriptions of how you know the Christ is truth - this faith you put in him, are descriptions that have the possibility of being simply human delusion. I have no doubt that you are not making any of this stuff up - I have no doubt that these are strong feelings you are having, but the most intense feelings and expereinces can be induced by the human brain. Looking at that God helmet video above also demonstrates this.

Humans are extremely susceptable to delusion.

It's really not good enough to say - well it's just a different feeling, it's different than just hearing voices in your head, it's not coming from me it's coming from Christ.

Nevermind about proving this to us - you can't possibly prove this to yourself. In a nutshell: internal experiences and feelings like this cannot be trusted and shouldn't be. There are perfectly good phsycological reasons to explain them.

That really should be enough to disprove Christ talking to people in their heads, if he really wants be heard then he should do something SUPERNATURAL - not something that could easily attributed to an ordinary delusion that many people have regarding many different things - the woman who drowned her children, she said CHRIST WAS TALKING TO HER - how can you possibly say she was not listening to THE CHRIST, her experience would have been similar to yours, perhaps even more intense.

but that is not THE Christ (Jaheshua), because all that He HAS taught us is against harming or killing others, and drowning one's own children (or anyone) is against love as well.

Christ hasn't said drown your children - but his father has said sacrifice your son (to abraham).

If Christ told you tomorrow to do something that was out of the ordinary to what he usually says, would you then realise you're listening to the wrong Christ, or would you accept it?

tec

Tec do you accept the evidence that shows Neanderthals and other early humans lived tens of thousands of years ago?
If not, can you briefly explain why, if so can you explain how sin and a ransom fit?

I don't reject it.

I doubt we have the whole picture, all the facts, so I keep an open mind as to what more facts will reveal, how much fuller the picture will be with each new puzzle piece discovered.

I do, however, also believe in the existence of Adam and Eve.

Now I could make my faith fit into what current science reveals... of course i would have to realign my faith when the science advances and/or changes... or I can simply say I am not sure (yet)what the bridge is between Adam and Eve in the spiritual, and the science we have on Neanderthals and such.

I am sure the reality/truth of each will not be in conflict... but I (and/or mankind) am currently missing answers/info on one or both.

It is never science and God that are in conflict. It is man's (mis) understanding or lack of knoweldge of one or both, that is in conflict.

Peace,

tammy

tec

FAITH requires having NO DOUBT, or the promised event may not happen.

A promised event or prophecy comes to pass regardless of whether anyone believes it or not.

That is how people have known that there has been a prophet among them (those who rejected that prophet to begin with, at least) The prophecy came to pass.

Peace,

tammy

tec

tec, do you think I am devoid of faith because I allow doubt?

No. I don't understand enough about you or your faith from our conversations to even have an opinion.

Not that my opinion would matter. That is a question for you to ask yourself and the one you have put your faith IN.

Has nothing to do with me.

Peace,

tammy

Question regarding Faith...(adamah)

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