Question regarding Faith...(adamah)

by tec 210 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tec

  But the obvious question is, have you ever been convinced BEYOND ANY DOUBT that something would happen, but it didn't come to pass? i.e. have you EVER been incorrect in your beliefs before? Have you EVER been wrong, despite being absolutely convinced you were RIGHT?

  I have been incorrect in my beliefs before... I did think the wts was the truth for some time. But I was listening to them... and not Christ.

  Nothing my Lord has ever said and taught, or taught me personally, has ever been incorrect or led me wrong. When I have listened to others (or myself) OVER Him... then I am led wrong, or am incorrect, or take the long route around when had I listened to Him I could have avoided a hardship for me and also others.

  But my faith in HIM has never been incorrect. But I do have to exercise the faith in Him (take the leap)- do as He guides/believe what He has taught or said - and then He catches me. Each time this happens, my faith in Him may be strengthened. So that I may have confidence that I can act upon and/or believe whatever He tells me.

  Starts out with just the tiniest act of faith (believing something He has said), and exercising that faith... and then may grow from there.

  Like the faith of a mustard seed... that grows into something much bigger. And that mustard seed is nurtured, watered (holy spirit), and grows.

  Peace to you,

  tammy
• 

  tec

  So Peter was supposed to completely IGNORE and even DENY the evidence provided by his own SENSORY ORGANS, as if he BELIEVED strongly enough he would remain above the water.

  Well, yes, actually.

  You have the Christ, the Son of God, standing on water in front of you. He is not afraid. He has told you to come. He is the Life. Do you not have faith that HE can keep you safe? That He can preserve your life? That HE knows what He is doing?

  Fear hinders faith.

  That's EXACTLY the point of FAITH: it requires not only believing despite a LACK of visible evidence, but even requires one DENYING sensory evidence which instills doubt, since it CHALLENGES the faith itself.

  Well, there was quite a bit of evidence for Peter in that incident.

  So it was not that Peter did not realize that it was possible... He exercised faith that He could walk to Christ as Christ said. He exercised faith IN Christ. But his fear was a lack of faith in Christ and God... that Christ and God would what? Allow Peter to drown when Christ called Peter out onto the water to begin with?

  But when Peter cried out Lord save me, Christ pulled him up.

  You telling me you can't see the topsy-turvy nature of that approach, especially since you have to take the entire account as having actually occurred ON FAITH, too, where the ancient myth of a Holy man being able to walk on water was quite old, even then?

  Whether you believe the account or not... we are using it as an example of faith, and fear/doubt.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  tec

  By examining the written EVIDENCE of the "men of faith" (as recorded in the Bible, so via knowledge and second-hand account), reading accounts of THEIR faith serves as a source of building up YOUR faith, which YOU in turn can share with others.

  Um... yes... that would be a manner of evidence that helps to build faith.

  Does that not contradict what you have been stating... that faith cannot have evidence, or it ceases to be faith?

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  jgnat

  Regarding the mustard seed, how about considering that not a lot of faith is needed to move mountains? After all, the power and force, which is limitless, comes from God.

  I used this illustration for an acquaintance who was well on her way to developing a powerful faith, spending a good part of her day in prayer.

  The mustard seed demonstrates that only a very little is required. Like the centurion who understood that a leader of men only needs to say, "Go" and it is done.
• 

  tec

  Yes, but most people don't have even a little bit of faith. The centurian knew it would be done. No doubt. That sounds like great faith to me.

  But yes, I agree, only a little faith is needed.

  But as another shared on my forum once (I am paraphrasing)... just a little doubt can hinder a little faith.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  jgnat

  As I recall, Thomas was still a Christian even after doubting. I think you are afraid of doubt.
• 

  tec

  I ask you questions about faith, jgnat, because i truly do not understand what you say to me. I do not understand your meaning from the story that you gave. Other than perhaps that she learned to put faith in God, over what she decided she and her husband needed or did not need.

  Unless she DID put faith in Him... by exercising faith in the understanding that He gave her. (I am not saying He did or did not... even though He certainly knows what she needs (do not pray for what you will wear or eat, for your Father in heaven KNOWS that you need these things... but first seek the kingdom, and all else will be given you)... but that would be faith, from what I understand. Her hearing, and believing what she has heard)

  I am not sure what that story would tell you about faith though.

  As for 'should' or right or wrong; there are many ways to be a spiritual or religious person. But it would depend upon your purpose in purusing spirituality, faith, religion. Is your purpose to come to the God, the Father of Christ? Then Christ is the Way, as He has said and shown. If He is the Truth, then anything against Him or teaching opposed to Him... is not the truth.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  tec

  Sorry, I went back to the page before. Didn't mean to break up the conversation as it is going.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  jgnat

  The misunderstanding is mutual. You are oblivious to how exclusive you sound, and thereby, insulting. I don't think you can hear me because you have already made some assumptions about what I believe and how I believe. So the words bounce off without effect.
• 

  adamah

  FWIW, I've never heard anyone get talked out of being a Christian (nor an atheist). Just sayin'.

  R u 4 realz? Read the MANY accounts of ex-believers, including Cofty (who comes to mind, since I was reading of his experience recently). Heck, I've read about 5 testimonials in this thread alone, on the first page.

  NOW, if what you REALLY meant to say YOU didn't WANT to HEAR of Christians getting talked out of their religious beliefs, then THAT'S another matter entirely. Cognitive blinders, et tu?

  Seeing the effects on someone with head trauma might have led some people to have suspected that the brain was involved with cognition, but then again maybe they would write it off as damage to the eyes and other senses. It only seems obvious to us today, like many other basic facts such as the roundness of Earth, because we've been told so, not because we've done any experiments to prove it to ourselves.

  You DO realize there's absolutely NOTHING preventing you from getting an undergrad college degree, applying to med school, becoming a medical researcher and conducting those SAME experiments which allowed earlier men to gain the knowledge, except doing it yourself? Reinvent that wheel, if you must, but there's no vast conspiracy preventing anyone from doing so, only your lack of motivation and/or neurological limitations (i.e. your brain power) that prevent any of us from doing it.

  And THAT'S the crucial difference between FAITH in science and FAITH in religion, eg you COULD confirm the observable evidence that directly supports a belief in the theory of evolution, if you're the type who must "see it to believe it" (warning: it takes alot of dedication to make up for years spent in door-to-door work, so you're likely going to be a bit older than your classmates in college working towards an undergrad biology degree). Now try doing the same to confirm your FAITH in Jesus, witnessing a MIRACLE for yourself! You may be better going for a physics degree, inventing a time-travel machine, and taking a looksie in 30CE, Palestine (don't forget to being a camera to post the footage on YouTube). Good luck with it!

  Adam