Question regarding Faith...(adamah) (page 4)

Fernando

From what I have experienced, and come to conclude, I am able to confirm the explanation that:

belief emanates from man
faith emanates from God.

My experience of faith is that of a higher level of consciousness and intelligence - an awakening of the divine that exists in very human.

This it seems is the intended consequence of hearing the liberating "unabridged gospel" message and pursuing it to its zenith.

Rom 10:17 paraphrased: "The free gift of faith - the wide opening of our spiritual eyes - is granted after the word or message - the unabridged gospel - about Jesus is heard, received and pursued".

Ordinary people who are persons of faith - spiritual persons - are able to see or discern things from another time, place or realm which consequently are hidden to the natural/physical/carnal/temporal/religious man - in particular the self-righteous, smug, and intelligent Pharisee.

1 Corinthians 2:14, 15 NWT: But a physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know [them], because they are examined spiritually. However, the spiritual man examines indeed all things, but he himself is not examined by any man.

Comatose

Does a starving child in Africa have hope or faith that god will bring him a meal? The child being molested, hope or faith that god will stop the bad man?

In the end, it all ends up the same. Your hope/faith gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling, taking away some of the pain that life brings. You hear Jesus and you feel god.

But, the children mentioned above don't even have their hope anymore...

zound

Thanks for responding to my points tec. I'll read through that other thread soon.

I try to simplify and distill things as much as possible - when discussing this kind of thing I find (sometimes) people with religious faith descend into what I would refer to (not trying to be disrespectful here) as 'babble'. It could be that they aren't very good at describing things, but it often comes across as just throwing alot of 'buzzwords' around in the effort to shroud faith in a cloud of mystery that only 'faithful' people will understand.

There hasn't been too much of this 'babble' in the thread so far, though it's started to go slightly in that direction with a few things - "We can ask for Truth though... we can ask for faith... and if we ask, if we knock and seek, then the door will be opened, the Father WILL answer. That is the promise."

I really am quite interested in getting a believers perspective of faith in simple understandable terms.

I'm sensing that alot of religious peoples 'religious faith' is actually more of mix of faith and hope. Meaning that if their faith in something doesn't pan out there is always an excuse - an 'out'. To borrow an expression from the JW's - "Wait on Jehovah", "Pray incessently and Jehovah will answer", "Don't doubt God's ability".

I'm not patient enough. I'm not praying enough. I have some small doubt inside that I'm barely aware of - always some escape clause for when faith doesn't work.

Even when you mentioned faith being a 'gift' from God. Meaning he may choose not to give it to you according to his whim. This strikes me as another escape clause.

Real life example:
After I woke up to the whole JW cult thing, I for a time tried to connect with God aside from the whole JW doctrines. I even avoided using the name Jehovah in case that was throwing a spanner in the works somehow. I tried praying to Jesus, tried praying to God - explained to God I don't really know the protocall anymore as I was confused as to what was true and what wasn't after the JW debacle - so please just accept my prayer even if I get some technicallities wrong.

All I really prayed for was for truth - as you mentioned. I just wanted to know what he wanted of me. I'm pretty sure I was praying with faith - not hope, as I was at a point that I just wanted TRUTH, didn't matter what it was.

I prayed my little heart out, repeatedly, for a long period. Over a long period.

I got nothing.

What am I missing?

zound

You put your faith in something false (most likely)... or perhaps you lost faith too soon... because the object of your faith did not occur in the timeline or manner that YOU thought was right?

Again - escape clause, escape clause.

If we harden our hearts, for instance, are we not rejecting it?

What does this even mean? Harden our hearts?

This is what I meant when I said faith is very limited. It seems every little thing has to be in very narrow margin to make faith work. It's like a checklist: Is my heart soft? Am I putting my faith in something false? Am I asking for truth? etc etc etc.

If faith fails - then it's not God's fault, it's obviously some small thing that I forgot to do or wasn't doing enough of.

hannes

The word faith is translated from the Greek pistis (as to believe is from pisteuein). Its core meaning is trust (and trusting). We trust in someone who we have experienced as trustworthy. So trust builds on experience and is a decision to grow into a relationship or even oneness of mutual connectedness. The experience of life and hope and trust in good things to come is one we all have. We breathe, we drink, and eat, feel joy and contentment.

There is no knowing of God nor image beyond ourselves, what we know within, and aside from our fellow humans and what we perceive from them. If we live by God, all that touches, moves, and fills us, if we perceive it as true, is from God, even such things as the nourishment from the milk of the mother for a little child. All that we are is from what we are made up and built from, growing in trust or mistrust, depending on what we got and how we weigh it.

The disciples perceived and came to know and trusted. We all do rely not only on our own but also on the experience of humans we come to know. We observe and listen and perceive through them as we do first through ourselves. It is all by God as God is perceived by the Word, that is Christ, the Entrusted One by God, and we to be with him along with all trusting and having trusted and come to trust in the love that surpasses and is far and beyond all religion that is merely human in the narrow and - sad to say - corrupt sense of the word.

zound

Okay, above is a perfect example of what comes across to me as 'babble' (no offence hannes - that's just how I'm reading it, it could be my poor understanding). I find it extremely difficult to follow these two paragraphs to a logical conclusion. I would ask someone - perhaps a believer, to try and simplify the below extract in an easy to understand way for someone like me... I'm just seeing so many different lines of thought here, and nothing that makes a lick of sense to me.

It is all by God as God is perceived by the Word, 5hat is Christ, the Entrusted One by God, and we to be with him along with all trusting and having trusted and come to trust in the love that surpasses and is far and beyond all religion that is merely human in the narrow and - sad to say - corrupt sense of the word.

zound

Oh, just want to add one more thing.

Thomas didn't have faith. He doubted. He demanded evidence - and Jesus promptly gave it to him.

jgnat

So you think faith is built upon nothing, jgnat? - tec

That's right. Faith is belief in the absence of evidence. It's a leap in to empty space trusting that God will catch you.

Comatose

I was thinking of the same analogy jgnat. Leap into space trusting. The disciples if they actually saw Jesus miracles didn't have faith. They had evidence. Like seeing the people in front of you jump from the cliff and not fall, but instead rise to heaven in gods hand. A leap into space with no evidence it will be okay is like faith. Seeing before hand that god catches all those before you is evidence. rambling a bit here.

Narcissistic Supply

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsfUk99FT7k

Question regarding Faith...(adamah)

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