Discussion w/ Wife: I Welcome Your Suggestions

by breakfast of champions 12 years ago 62 Replies latest 12 years ago watchtower bible

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  tootired2care 12 years ago

  I would suggest two things:

  1. Ask her if she believes the preaching to be effective in her own experience, and reason with her how god could condemn someone who has their own faith for rejecting a strange watchtower. Furthermore, recall to her memory all of the time spent preaching to people that armageddon is coming soon, and now that is not the case. In other words, why spend time preaching something that is inevitably going to be false in the near future. This should tie in real nicely with what she is studying now.

  2. Watch some movies with her that show how bad other parts of the world are where they don't have the freedom that western culture affords; and then, reason with her about why this freedom exists, and how the freedom that allows preaching has really been paved by the sacifices of the brave men and women who fought for it.

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  label licker 12 years ago

  Hey ablebodiedman,

  you don't know what you have just done for us. I wrote those two scriptures in the front of my bible in huge writing and just can't wait to use them on the next creepy elders that come here. That is definitely going into my final letter to the co this week. Now I can go to bed and know I won't be having anymore bad dreams. Night night everyone

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  Doug Mason 12 years ago

  If your wife wants to prove that the organisation is peaceful and loving, that it does not wage warfare, then tell her to spend the next month attending services at churches of varying denominations and religions.

  Then let her see how peacefully it deals with her.

  At the same time, she might see how this peaceful organisation rips families apart, how it kills innocent children and parents because of its lies over the medical use of some parts of blood.

  If she still thinks that waging war against their own people is peace, then she has real problems.

  Is it real peace to have a God who will destroy billions of people because they have not read the Watchtower?

  Doug

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  rawe 12 years ago

  Hi Breakfast of Champions,

  "Here is what she's stuck on though: Jehovah's Witnesses don't go to war. And who else is doing the preaching work like Jehovahs Witnesses?"

  A year or two after I left the faith, I made a trip to Berlin Germany. One of the sites I wanted to visit was Sachsenhausen. Our tour guide explained at one point that the first person hung on the gallows was one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I can honestly say, a feeling of pride (and sadness of course) still came over me, even though I was now an Ex-JW. Even to this day, I don't think there is any need to not give some credit to the Witnesses in this regard. I also continue to appreciate that when my father in Canada decided not to go to war it was a difficult decision and certainly one that went against the currents of the time.

  However, a couple other things struck me that day. One was the simple fact that it was the Russian Red Army that liberated the camp. The fact that Russian soldiers went to war and many died in the process was the undeniable basis upon which inmates in that camp were set free (of course the SS forced marched out many before the Russian arrived). Second there were others who resisted the Nazis such as Reverend Martin Niemöller who wrote the now famous "First they came..." poem.

  Finally, I now realize there is something intrinsic about Jehovah's Witnesses both now and then that does much harm, but plays out in this way. That is a strong sense of them vs us in regards to competing philosophy. Absolutely anyone who dared suggest they could lift up humanity is the subject of scorn and ridicule by the Witnesses. Hence, resistance against Hilter's Germany was not just about being on elevated moral ground. It was much to do with "we are God's people and will not bow to you..." Of course the individuals making up such rhetoric were not the ones on the front line!

  Jesus of course said "this good news of the kingdom will be preached..." (Matt 24:14) and there is little doubt the Witnesses are well known for their door-to-door preaching. But, in reality what is this thing we did as Witnesses? Actually I now believe it was almost entirely about ritual that helped with group identity. A year or two before we left this happened. My wife had a Bible study move just west of Phoenix out towards Sun City. At first we tried to contact the congregation out there so they would make contact with the study, but that didn't work. We then made two trips out to the congregation and after the meeting asked around who would like help out with a study. It was truly a deer-in-the-headlights look! Finally, someone agreed to go with my wife on the next study. My wife was shocked when she got an angry phone call the day after the study. The sister said, literally, "what are you trying to rope me into?" Then went out to explain at some length how she could not accomodate a study and how could she presume such!

  Not all of course are like that and certainly I have met some sincere and well motivated Witnesses in my years. However, far more it seems do things, subtle and sometimes not so subtle to actually be ineffective and merely put in the time.

  Best wishes helping your wife.

  Cheers,

  -Randy

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  friendaroonie 12 years ago

  It is simply not accurate to say jws are unique in preaching and in not going to war. The quaker church I attend has a dynamic and expansive preaching and teaching work. It jusr doesn't look the same as the obvious door to door and street preaching of jws. The friends church (quakers) sometimes take walks around the neighborhood as a group and strike up conversations with the neighbors. They get to know them and ask if they have any needs that they can help with. They subtly work in a spiritual conversation but it is done delicately. They are always coming up with new and unique ways to preach but the concentration is on being friendly and helpful. They send missionaries all over the world. And they are pacifists and many of them have gone to prison for their stand.

  And this is just one example. Really most churches are not gung ho for war. They just dont kick their members out for joining. Individual consciences come into play however. And after all we do have to defend ourselves if we are attacked so we might as well be good at it and practice for different scenarios and be ready. Yahweh is one of the most blood thirsty war mkngering character ever invented so lets not pretend he doesnt enjoy a nice bloody battle. So the facts really do show that preaching and peace are viewed as virtuous behabiors in christendom and most religions.

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  wizzstick 12 years ago

  I think many here have answered the first point about those who don't fight.

  On the second point, the kingdom preaching work, this was for me the hardest part to grasp. I did, but it took me time.

  What does the preaching the good news of the kingdom mean to JW's?

  It means preaching that Jesus Christ began ruling as King in 1914 when the Gentile Times ended and that the period of time time we are living in since then are the Last Days that Jesus spoke off. This time leads up to Armageddon whereafter a 'Great Crowd' of survivors will live forever on a paradise earth.

  Problems:

  1) Jesus spoke in Luke 21:23-24 that "Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."

  Everything Jesus says above is clearly in the future sense (emphasis mine). So in 33CE he was talking about 70CE when the Romans come back. So the Gentile Times star in 70CE? No - even though everything Jesus says is future state, JW's (and others) apply the start of the Gentile Times to other dates. In JW's case it's 607BCE.

  2) 607BCE.

  What do I write? It's utter nonsense. Do your own research into it. For me what did it was the HUGE amount of evidence for 586/587 and absolutely nothing that supports the WT's chronology. Nothing. Whatsoever. By that I particularly mean the extra years the WT addds.

  3) Where the Great Crowd goes.

  They are in heaven. No - really they are. Check out the Greek word for before (enopion) and the where they are Naos. Combine those two and you get to the realisation that they are in heaven.

  So...where does that leave us.

  The JW's are preaching that Gods kindom was established in 1914 (not true).

  That therefore the Last Days started in 1914 (therefore also not true).

  And that the Great Crowd are on earth (also not true).

  The three points above mean that Almighty God Jehovah, who hates a liar, is behind the group who are indeed going door to door...but with a false message! And they're doing this when Armageddon is totally and absolutely imminent.

  So...are they really fullfilling the kingdom preaching work?

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  TJ Curioso 12 years ago

  breakfast see this link:

  http://4jehovah.org/dialogue-6-how-can-you-find-the-true-religion/

  You can take ideias from that.

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  Perry 12 years ago

  The not going to war excuse just feeds their pride. Ask your wife if she was being attacked if she would want you to fight the attacker. Then ask if she would want the same assistance given to her next door neighbor. What about the neighbor three doors down, the next street, the next city, country and so on. Where does one's responsibility stop in regard to their neighbor?

  JW's rarely reason on this because they would have to forfeit a major source of pride and perceived moral superiority on this issue... not to mention actually believe the bible.

  We must not forget that Cornelius was an active duty roman army officer when baptized.

  Rom 13:1,3-4,6 (NIV) Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established... Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing... This is why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

  1 Pet 2:13-14 (NIV) Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

  Temporary, Practical Submission To Worldly Authority Versus Eternal Submission To God

  Luke 20:20-25 (NIV) Keeping a close watch on him, they sent spies, who pretended to be honest. They hoped to catch Jesus in something he said so that they might hand him over to the power and authority of the governor. So the spies questioned him: "Teacher... is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" He saw through their duplicity and said to them, "Show me a denarius. Whose portrait and inscription are on it?" "Caesar's," they replied. He said to them, "Then give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

  John 18:36 (GLT) Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would have fought that I might not be delivered up to the Jews. But now My kingdom is not from here."

  When (And Only When) Not To Obey The Authorities Of This World

  Acts 4:19 (TEB) But Peter and John answered them, "You yourselves judge which is right in God's sight, to obey you or to obey God."

  Acts 5:28 (NIV) "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name..." Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!"

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  tenyearsafter 12 years ago

  Preaching work should be measured by fruitfulness...it might be of interest that many of the mega-churches, who do baptisms weekly, have up to 100 new baptisms each week. Their method of preaching is multi-pronged, and doesn't soley rely on door knocking, though many incorporate that as part of their outreach. Compare this to the paltry annual JW DC baptisms in double digits. It might be food for thought...is Satan's spirit, empowering Babylon the Great, more influential than the holy spirit directing the JW preaching work?

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  FadeToBlack 12 years ago

  I thought Jesus said the identifying mark of true christains (his followers/disciples) would be the evident love among themselves (John 13:35). He didn't mention anything about an organized preaching work or doctrinal viewpoint about war.

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