Where Do You NOW Think Wickedness Comes From? The Devil or... ?

by LoisLane looking for Superman 39 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec
    tec
    Everything about that charachter is borrowed from other religions and myths.

    Well, most things start somewhere... and there is some truth carried between all religions, even myths.

    But even by the Bibe's standars what you say makes no doctrinal sense, you are saying God created evil and inserted it into man for the devil (who also had the mechanism of evil) to manipulate and encourage.

    Of course not. A person can be created in love... and can himself act from a lack of love for others, thinking more of himself.

    Even biblically, regardless of whether you believe in the devil or not... the adversary was not created evil either. He turned on his own... looking at HIMSELF, becoming enamored of HIMSELF.

    There is nothing wrong with loving yourself, and in fact you SHOULD love yourself (else how can you love your neighbor AS yourself, and it be a good thing?)... unless you start loving yourself at the expense and harm of others, even of those you claim to love.

    So the source of evil is God? Or are you saying Satan created evil, that he is the source? That is not biblical!

    Hopefully, the above clarifies some.

    It amazes how many negative elements of our universe are ascribed to Satan a charachter with no ability to create.

    Sure... but that is not what i have said.

    War? Erm no.. god was the first charachter to use War according to the bible and God invented the sword according to the bible (spinning blade protecting eden) and was THE god of wars, his son now preparing to win the great war in heaven. Humans today fight for land, for survival and for their god's .... satan has no role in any of this, all of these things are innate desires in our physiology as they are in a lion fighting for its territory, for its survival and for his pack.

    Humans fight for power as well... for money, for greed, etc, all at the expense/harm of others.

    But I don't understand why people keep thinking that God invented the sword. Just because the sword was used as imagery... means only that it is an image that people would understand. Remember, a sword comes from the mouth of Christ as well... but he doesn't actually walk around with a literal sword in his mouth. And they already HAD swords at the time that passage was written.

    Crime ? Satan! Erm no crime is motivated by selfish desires built within our human make up made by god e.g. stealing for one's desire to survive, murdering due to physiological uncontrolled rage, rape due to the human sex drive,
    ....yes humans make desicions too, with their god made mind and body,

    I realize you are talking about what some others say when they blame the devil and take no responsiblity for their own actions... becaues I have not said that.

    Where exactly does Satan fit into this role of evil promoter? How EXACTLY does he promote evil?

    I think I answered that in my first post.

    If god existed in infinity and then created everything, why even create evil? Adam and Eve were not the first to do evil according to the bible, Satan did 'evil' by daring to question his dictator, his god. On promoting this idea to humans we are told sin entered into the world...

    Again, hopefully the above clarifies. The 'evil', however, was using deception to get Adam and Eve to go against God, and partake of something that would cause them to die when 'bad' (death) entered them. The sin was acting outside of love... (for God, for Eve, for his own offspring)... to the detriment of these ones (which proved to be a detriment to himself as well)

    This is where you talk about free will, but free will is not what god offered in eden, it was his way or death.... then wehn they chose to make desicions for themselves he made them imperfect, made them suffer, made them struggle to survive... that is not free will... that is SERVE ME OR DIE AND WITH DIFFICUT LIVES! Also he didn't play fair, having made us imperfect and want to do wrong (the source of evil therefore being god) and making it hard to survive, he guaranteed that we would fail in our independence. Nothing has been answered, the onlooking angels could ask "How would humans making desisicions independant of god fair had he let them remain perfect, without sin and in a paradise?"....... See it is all nonsense!!!

    If they had no free will... they could not have chosen to eat from that tree in the first place, deceived or not. Nor was it a threat... but simply the truth. IF you eat from this tree, THEN you will die. Because death entered them... and yes, they could have eaten from the tree of life then and lived, but had proven that they could not be trusted with eternal life if they had such a lack of love for one another and for those who came after them.

    Man dominates/harms his fellow man... that is some of the sin that is in us; imagine a man who lived forever and did this? Doing that in the spiritual realm, leaving no 'safe' or 'clean' place... and never learning because there would have been no lesson and no consequences from showing such a lack of love to creator, and fellow created.

    Yet, God showed mercy... because though they WERE dead, death had entered them, and life is the absence of death; which is why Christ could say, "let the dead bury their own dead; unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have NO LIFE in you"... God gave them different bodies, different 'robes' to which the sin and death could be held so that the spirit might not HAVE to die along with their flesh.

    Also there is no reason that free will can't exist without EVIL and SIN... so again why did god create it ?

    Again, He did not.

    If you insist that evil and sin has to exist, then how could you accep the prospect of a heaven or paradise earth with no evil or sin when satan is finally destroyed? Will free will be removed too ?

    It doesn't have to exist.

    Those in the kingdom have white robes 'washed in the blood of the lamb'... new bodies... no sin and death, and they ARE eating from the tree of life: Christ.

    Cannot act upon something that is not IN you... and it is not in you because you have been made clean in Christ. Being perfect, even now, as God is perfect... because you love ALL, friend and foe. And some... have that law of love already in their hearts... naturally. These too, will be in the Kingdom.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec
    With all due respect, I don't get what you are saying here.
    According to your book, God cast Satan and his minions into "hell" instead of Puerto Rico: Your book reads that "Hell" sucks for everyone including imps and demons. According to 2 Peter 2:4: "God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but sent them to "hell", putting them into chains of darkness to be held for judgment."

    According to Revelation, the devil has been cast out of heaven, yes... but is upon the earth.

    Not that we need help from him to sin... that sin is IN us already. But he was brought up in the OP; i simply meant to show that he is not the cause of sin; though he can deceive people into acting on their desire that leads to harm, and so sin and death.

    He also accuses us that we serve God ONLY for selfish reasons, and the moment things get hard, we will curse God (blame him for any evil or hardships happening to us)... and so die.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec
    Tec, does that mean God created man evil?

    I hope this was answered above, braincleaned.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • cofty
    cofty

    For somebody who was never a JW your theology is remarkably similar.

  • tec
    tec

    The part about the adversary accusing us, so that we 'curse god and die'... as in from Job, you mean? I agree. Doesn't make it wrong though. It is a pretty defined theme from what is written.

    The rest is not similar.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • flipper
    flipper

    LOIS- Interesting points you make. I agree there is no such thing as " Satan " or a " Devil " - it's conveniently used by JW's and other " religious " people as a copout so they don't have to be accountable for their actions. I believe ignorance in humans can cause " wickedness " - some people are conditioned to be ignorant from the environment they were raised in, others just choose to remain ignorant as they are deviously manipulative people within themselves to serve their own agenda- usually controlling others lives and being psychological vampires sucking the life out of poor victims emotions who come across their path. Seen a lot of that in my lifetime.

    So I tend to agree with Insearchoftruth 4- it comes from the person him or herself. People are at extremes of bad, extremes of being good , and then there are some who fall in the middle of that lot in varying degrees. Kinda how I see it. It's up to us to not get taken by users and manipulative people. Have to educate ourselves to hone our radar - especially since we were taken by a mind control cult for awhile. It behooves us to be more aware so we don't get taken again. Peace out, mr. flipper

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Wickedness comes from joke-hova itself, creating problems and then using them to enslave us all. All three of the major religious platforms carry this message, and if one were to read any of their "holy books", one would realize that it is about joke-hova against freedom. All three of these platforms (Judaism, Christi-SCAM-ity, and Islam) carry the message that we are supposed to be slaves under God, anyone not in agreement with joke-hova or allah needs to be tortured, that women are scum, people need to be poor, and that sex is to be highly regulated. This is as true whether you read talmud, LIE-ble, or quran. All three have the same message.

    And, taking a blatant example, who was it that had to issue a death threat to get obedience right in the opening part of the LIE-ble? Who was able to entice mankind to accept freedom, without having to threaten anyone, right in the next chapter? Who placed the "gun" to our heads? And who threw a hissy fit when plans fouled up? Another is Jacob--which one of them risked his life to support his family, and which one swindled value out of them? Yet, did joke-hova condemn Jacob for being a parasite while praising Esau for being industrious and risking his life to support the family? I would have liked to see what Jacob would have done had Esau not been there. Yet, joke-hova consistently praises the parasite while bashing the worker.

    And blame Satan?

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    Question posted by Terry:

    Here is a question for the questioner.

    If there were only ONE person on Earth would it be possible for that person to have morality?

    How would you explain that?

    Ah... World peace?

    LoisLane

    Terry... If you don't understand that, that is the joke answer Miss America always gives...

    to Everything. lol

  • prologos
    prologos

    wickedness is what others do that conflicts with our self- interest.

    the world is build on success and there is bound to be loosers,

    bitter loosers that declare others' actions wicked.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    Lois

    While I think that is a good question , and many christians and ex christians , have put forward their veiws , I would be very interested to know what the Israelites / Jews of the Old Testament , the Hebrew Scriptures , what their views / beleifs were, regarding where wickedness came from . Did they beleive in Satan ?

    Did they beleive wickedness / evil originated with a fallen angel identified as Satan ? Or did they have some other reason for it .

    Christianity (,the new testament ) is like a glove that fits over the hand, ( the old testament) So does the beleif of a Satan as evil fit in with evil that existed in pre- christian times that can be attributed to a Devil. ?

    Are their any Jewish scholars out their who can answer this ?

    smiddy

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit