Musings about different types of atheist!

by Seraphim23 304 Replies latest jw friends

  • adamah
    adamah

    PA asked-

    Right so let me alter the question, are scrientific theories prone to changes?

    Of course, if someone comes up with a simpler better explanation that fits or explains the facts, or if facts. If someone comes up with a better theory than evolution to explain the evidence, then Darwin's theory is out in a minute. Wouldn't count on it happening: evolution has withstood challenges for a century and a half, and has been modified, but it serves the role of being the unifying theory of biology than physicists are searching for in their discipline.

    PA said-

    Right, so you disagree with the biblical passage that god asked Abraham to kill his son as a sine for obedience?

    Actually, Hebrews 11 describes it as a test of Abraham's FAITH, not as an "obedience test" (although it was....).

    Seraphim said-

    I don’t believe that passage is literal.

    So, if it's not literal, then what allegorical value does it have, then?

    However the bible is not the means by which the word theist means what it does. However the bible does say to test the spirits to see where they originate and I suggest murdering children is not one of the fruits of the spirit. So such a command would fail the test.

    Are you saying that God, as depicted in Genesis and "the binding of Isaac" incident, fails Seraphim's test? Are you going to break the news to God that He failed YOUR test? You're a cheeky monkey, aren't you?!?

    Adam

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    P A, I don’t base the validity of scripture on scripture. That is circular reasoning. If I right down on a piece of paper that the following is directly from God, and then say all kind of rubbish afterwards, you don’t believe it because of the first sentence do you? It is better to take each part of the bible according to its own merits when measured against other evidence not in the bible. Of course if parts of the bible contradict other parts, as with the fruits of the spirit verse in the New Testament and the literal interpretation of this Abrahamic passage, if it is meant to be taken literally in the Old Testament, it is a clue that either the entire bible is wrong, or parts of it are wrong. The bible was put together by man and written by man and interpreted by man. It also wasn’t written at the same time and called the bible. Jesus said to judge a tree by the fruit. What fruit is the murder of an innocent or a lack of mercy?

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    Adamah have a look at the passage yourself, you might see some allegorical value. God already knows that the literal interpretation of that verse fails the test.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Adamah have a look at the passage yourself, you might see some allegorical value.

    I did look at the passage, and don't see any allegorical value. I was asking YOU to explain what value YOU see in it, since you suggested it had allegorical value.

    God already knows that the literal interpretation of that verse fails the test.

    "God knows that"? Then why did He inspire it to be written by Moses, then, in the first place?

    I take it you don't see the account as serving as a dramatic foreshadowing of God's offering of His only begotten son to the World to redeem mankind from Adamic sin?

    Adam

  • Seraphim23
    Seraphim23

    Well I’m not going to get into allegorical interpretations of the bible in this thread if you don’t mind. Inspiration in my mind doesn’t mean mankind acting as some kind of secretary for God. To me it means the same as it normally does in normal life. If a man is inspired by the love of his wife to wright music and lyrics for her, then it is inspired and limited by his understanding of her as a result. That’s how I see the doctrine of inspiration. However I think there is more to it than just that, but it will divert this thread if I go into it that much, and I know you don’t want to start another thread to ask me anything, so there we go.

  • prologos
    prologos

    what different type of atheists are religious leaders (no exemptions for residents of NY state) that

    defy the written instruction from their deity and:

    proclaim dates-----

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Seraphim and sabatious, I feel sorry for anyone that has to live with you and converse with you daily lol .

    in all seriousness, this nonsense is not helpful, especially to a new person coming along. kill the thread and leave these two to chat amongst themselves, let them go make new usernames and come back,by the way sabatious, cofty and I pm'd with recognition of who you were right at the start. Nobody else talks and thinks in such a sporadic and contradictory manner, you don't want to find answers you are looking for questions, though they have no meaning.

    It is like trying to converse with people in a a lauguage they don't speak or understand whilst they try to denounce the rules of the language. go away and do a course in science, seriously, if it means so much to you both, to question it. Go put hard cash on the table and pay for an education, argue with your tutors all day about observing the unobservable and accomplishing things never seen before such as raising the dead with your mind.

    all the best with that.

  • paranoia agent
    paranoia agent

    Seraphim23 : Sure I understand that, many eastern orthodox share your view, but being that you wrote 'I don’t base the validity of scripture on scripture' then what are you basing on that the Abraham passage was not literal?

    I have to ask these questions because all christians have different beliefs, being that there are 42,000 different christian dominations it's no surprise.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Paranoia agent

    Evidence and facts are the basis of theories. So we have fossil evidence dated from millions of years ago until modern times that shows an increase in complexity over time. This is a fact, the fossils are the evidence. Evolution is the theory of HOW those fossils increased in complexity and variety over time.

    if you are wondering why dinosaurs and evolution etc are issues of modern day humans, it is because they were only recently dug up and found.

    Evolution is a process we now KNOW occurs, but there are so many layers of evolution from the dna up to the physical representation of the dna (phenotype), there is much to be examined, discussed, learned and even re-examined. For example what happened when and why etc. this is why despite having facts and evidence, we can only build s theory around them and try to increase the evidence by making predictions based on hypothesis. So for example, if evolution is true, and natural selection occurs. We can force life to evolve around us by changing the enviroment, as seen in bacteria with antibiotics.

    Darwin was not the only person to think of evolution, many did, but he was the first to publish the theory. Wallace a butterfly expert also published the theory at the same time but a scientific panel concluded that Darwin be attributed the theory. Some of what Darwin thought and theorised has long ago been proven incorrect. He did his science over 100 years ago, the theory stands but his assumptions on many things were wrong. For example he imagined life sprouting like a tree, evolving branches and twigs of animals from a single trunk, but we now know it is multiple trunks. the jw's use a sly tactic of quoting modern scientists denouncing the Darwinian theory as being proven wrong, then stop the quote there, not finishing with the new evidence that still supports evolution but not as Darwin imagined.

    Darwin originated the theory it does not belong to him, it belongs to humanity. Obviously he got things wrong as we do to this day. But the evidence, the facts are the start if the theory.

    Hopefully that gives you s better sppreciation. We really are not the best people to ask, go and read up on it and I am sure it will answer any questions you have Paranoia agent.

    snare x

    p.s. I really wouldn't debate science with people that don't understand it. Not that they don't deserve to understand etc, but until they make the effort toeven know what they are debating, you are wasting valuble time and energy. Some here have lied repeatedly and made it obvious they are just trying to use up your time, efen laughing about it, probably thinking they are doing gods work in doing so. Trust me they don't want answers, save your time for people that do and for peoole that don't have to change their username due to the above behaviour.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Seraphim said-

    Well I’m not going to get into allegorical interpretations of the bible in this thread if you don’t mind. Inspiration in my mind doesn’t mean mankind acting as some kind of secretary for God. To me it means the same as it normally does in normal life. If a man is inspired by the love of his wife to wright music and lyrics for her, then it is inspired and limited by his understanding of her as a result. That’s how I see the doctrine of inspiration. However I think there is more to it than just that, but it will divert this thread if I go into it that much, and I know you don’t want to start another thread to ask me anything, so there we go.

    Well you can start another thread, or I can, if you like: my curiosity is peaked as to this mysterious allegorical interpretation you have for the account, since you claimed it existed (not me). Heck, I even proffered the binding of Isaac as foreshadowing for God's sacrificing his son to mankind (the typical Christian interpretation), but you don't buy that one?

    I'm betting dollars to donuts you don't actually have anything, and are just parroting the "it's allegorical" excuse without having any idea of what that means, a well-worn tactic used by believers whenever there's a veritable mountain of scientific evidence to undermine any given problematic passage or concept in the Bible (eg firmament: allegorical for WHAT, exactly? Or God stopping the Earth from rotating to allow for more daylight, etc) or for God to carry out or implement morally-indefensible crimes against humanity (institution of slavery, child sacrifice, genocide, etc).

    Adam

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