God is Jesus

by evangelist 178 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  LittleToe

  Also got to agree with Alan and Ozzie, here.
  It would be incorrect to say "God is Jesus".
  (The only way you'll get away with that is in the Greek, but definitely not in the English).

  Jesus is God, I can follow.
• 

  evangelist

  I think we can take the bible like it is with any greek and Hebrew understanding , but these thing are good to know but the power of the Word of God is in´trusting in Jesus and His living Word.
  I see so much people trying to interpretate the bible without the Holy Spirit and this is confussion because we need the Holy Spirit to teach us the truth not greek and Hebrew according to 1Jo:2:27: But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

  I also see that the JHW society tries to take away the healing, and powres away from the bible and their religion because they don`t trust Jesus as their personal savoir, and try don`t divide the bible correctly. the bible says:Ac:1:8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
  When you ask a religious christian to show the anoined power in them they come up with some story Healing died out or the miricale powers is from the devil and the devil can do miricles,a nd heal also like vooodooo, or something, but the satan can`t give life and he can`t give abundfance life because he is a theif and A destrayer according to Joh:10:10: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
  I know that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, and I know God is the GREAT I AM and not the GREAT I WAS.
  I am saying all this because I see those who disagree with the truth that God is not Jesus or Jesus is not God and the HOly Spirit is not God are not walking and working in any powers of the Lord. They mosly have alot of talk not nothing to show, they are still broke disgusted and busted, and stil sick, and depress argueing about theology man made understanding instead of the spiritual things according to 1Co:2:10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
  1Co:2:13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
  1Co:2:14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
  1Co:2:15: But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
  Joh:4:23: But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
  Joh:4:24: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

  I have the same understanding as these men of God that work in the power of God today like Smith Wiggleworth who raised more than 16 people from the dead, and these cases are proven medically for the skeptics, and they knew that Jesus was God in the flesh and they were Jesus worshipers and trusted the Holy Spirit ,and knew the Holy Spirit is a person. If you like to study on Wiggleworth you can by clicking on this link to see how a real christian should show that Jesusis with them and is in them.
  http://www.robertsliardon.org/gener...nerals2.html#sw
  There will be more great christians that followed Jesus on the Web site.
  The thing about Wiggleworth is that he could not read , but some how he could only read the English bible and the power of God flowed through him without any understanding of greek and Hebrew or anyother language.
  here is another man who is a powerful man of God and bekieves the same as me about Jesus is God and God still heals today and proform great miricles through us his children when we trust and believe by faith his written Words.
  This evangelist that I know and seen with my own eyes has the anointing to discern soirits ,and he can make body part grow, and I even seen he lay hands on a fat women and before our eyes the lady lost weight instantly so much that her dress didN´t fit any more.I seen legs grow and peoplem heal from lung cancer instantly like Jesus would do, and He believes the bible like it is ,with no greek and Hebrew and other languages.
  So the question is who is deceived?
  hereis the link to my friend that body part grow on.
  www.mindfusion.net/clientimg/billys...testimonies.htm

  I think after checking these cases some might learn to trust Jesus, and his Word the way it is, because my God Jehovah the Great I AM has no respect of person He treat us all the same regardless if your a man ,women, greek, Jew, black,red person or what ever, we are the same in Christ and he give us equally praise God.

  Let God Bless you
  Proverb:4:7: Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
• 

  Earnest

  evangelist,

  Thank you for inviting us to "check these cases" to see "who is deceived". I was particularly interested in the case of Smith Wigglesworth who raised "more than 16 people from the dead" as I thought I would have heard of someone who raised more people than all those recorded in the Bible combined.

  And then I came across this news item from the Los Angeles Times of Dec. 22, 2001 on Roberts Liardon who you quote on Wigglesworth

  Evangelical pastor Roberts Liardon temporarily stepped down from his Irvine-based ministry this week after admitting to a "short-term inappropriate sexual relationship."

  "As a minister of the gospel, I realize my moral failure has been inappropriate and wrong," Liardon said in a written statement. "I have asked God's forgiveness."

  The Charisma News Service of March 11, 2002 http://www.charismanews.com/online/articledisplay.pl?ArticleID=5596 reported that

  Pastor and writer Roberts Liardon preached yesterday at his church for the first time since he stepped down three months ago after admitting to a "moral failure." The founder of Embassy Christian Center in Irvine, Calif., gave a 30-minute message on keeping the faith. In December, Liardon confessed to a short-term homosexual relationship with the church's youth pastor, John Carrette.

  "Those around me asked me to come," Liardon said yesterday. He received a 30-second standing ovation from about 650 people. Liardon, 36, told the Embassy congregation that his appearance was "just for one Sunday. I am still working with my counseling." While not addressing any specific situation, Liardon said: "(We have) gone through some great dramatics in the last few months...Our church has gone through a crisis...but it is (going to be) OK. God is in charge...He does not come to destroy. He comes to lift you."

  Liardon later told "Charisma" that his counselors, particularly El Paso, Texas, pastor Charles Nieman [one of the teachers in Robert Tilton's Satellite Bible College], had encouraged him to preach, and it fit the schedule to do so at this time. Liardon made the announcements and took an offering at previous services, but yesterday's was his first sermon. About one-quarter of Embassy members, as well as Bible college students and missionaries, have left the church since Liardon's admission.

  Of course, the lack of morality and shame are not in themselves evidence that Liardon's account of Smith Wigglesworth is without foundation. However, there is not much more documentation on these resurrections in the link you give where it says http://www.smithwigglesworth.org/bio.php

  Despite the incredible revelation and faith Smith had regarding healing, he was virtually unknown outside of his hometown until he was forty-eight. The event that hurled his ministry into international recognition came in 1907 when he received the Pentecostal experience of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit by speaking in other tongues. The event happened in Sunderland under the ministry of Vicar and Mrs. Boddy. After speaking in other tongues, Smith asked to take the platform where over 50 others received the same experience and the local newspaper ran the story on the front page.

  Known for his bold and unflinching faith, Smith's healing ministry soon took him into other nations and continents. As he was becoming one of the most popular evangelists in the Pentecostal movement, his wife Polly died. Asking God to give him a double portion of the anointing, Smith began to experience phenomenal results in his meetings. Because of his aggressive faith, he was often accused of being too rough on the people he prayed for. Many times he was known to hit the sick person in the afflicted area; others who might be crippled were ordered to run after he prayed for them. Never believing that God sent him anywhere too late, Smith raised countless people from the dead and saw hopeless cases restored to new wholeness.

  Liardon gives greater detail in his book God's Generals, which is his version of the Pentecostal movement since the mid 1800s. He relates...

  ...one meeting when a doctor brought a cancer patient to the healer. Wigglesworth "wound up his hand and hit him where the cancer was in the stomach. He punched him so hard until the man died… and the doctor screamed, ‘You killed him!’ Wigglesworth said, ‘he’s healed.’ Ten minutes later the man got up healed.’" When critics would confront Wigglesworth and ask "why do you hit people," he would say, "I don’t hit people. I hit the devil, the people just get in the way."

  Doesn't that sound just like Jesus.

  What you say about not needing to understand Hebrew and Greek in order to understand the Bible is quite true. But we do need to be aware that Bible translators are human and will have bias and so it would help us to understand if we compare translations when a number exist in our language (as they do in English). Personally, I believe the NWT has done truth lovers a great service as it has brought attention to the fact that English translation does not have to imitate the Authorised Version and that there are many scriptures which can be understood differently when translated with a unitarian bias.

  If I understand you correctly, you are saying that your belief and understanding that "God is Jesus and Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God" is correct because you "have the same understanding as these men of God that work in the power of God today like Smith Wiggleworth". Those who try to understand the original languages and reach a different conclusion are "broke disgusted and busted, and still sick and depressed, argueing about theology, man made understanding, instead of the spiritual things". Unfortunately, we know very little about the power of God in Smith Wigglesworth and his performance of miracles leaves much to be desired. It may be of interest to you to read an analysis of God's Generals in the February 1999 issue of The Christian Sentinel as most of these nineteenth century pentecostalists were eccentric to say the least.

  You conclude by saying that "after checking these cases some might learn to trust Jesus, and his Word the way it is", meaning the way you understand it (because you have the power of God). The truth is that after checking these cases I am more convinced that we should never be swayed by charisma, by the performing of powerful works, but by scripture alone.

  Earnest
• 

  biblexaminer

  God is Jesus, said the Kettle to the Pot, and you Mr Pot are black.

  Black, exclaimed the Pot, looks who's black if it's not you!

  But what is black, asked the Kettle, in the substance of three?

  What the hell are you talking about Kettle?

  For those who, after having left the WTS, propagate the "trinity", I say ...no wonder you got caught by the WTS in the first place.

  And who did Jesus pray to? ...said the oven. (John chapter 17)
• 

  Imbue

  ozzie says:

  I think it's more accurate to defend Jesus is God than the other way around.

  
  If Jesus is God and they are equal than why would the order be of concern? Unless one was created by the other therefore existed first. Then how can they be considered equel and the same person?

  1+2=3 2+1=3

  "Not part of the inner circle class"-Larc
• 

  LittleToe

  "God is Jesus" would seem to indicate that Jesus is the totality of God, which leaves out the Father and the Holy Spirit.
• 

  AlanF

  This "evangelist" moron is obviously a Pentecostal. They have a view of the Trinity that's considered heretical by mainstream Christians. Because they're so immersed in their tongue speaking and other assorted nonsense, they don't have time or inclination to think, but only to emote. You'll never get a reasoned argument from someone capable only of emoting.

  AlanF
• 

  Imbue

  Little Toe using algebra for that calculation?

  "Not part of the inner circle class"-Larc
• 

  LittleToe

  LOL@Imbue Re: Algebra.
  Re: Equality. That is equality of substance, not necessarily position, since God is head of all (1Cor.11:3; 15:22-28).
• 

  Imbue

  Little Toe you were canceling out numbers...LOL

  "Not part of the inner circle class"-Larc