New Blog Post: why did God seemingly allow Cain to get away with murder?

by adamah 79 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  adamah

  No scripture as requested yet, TEC?

  Adamah asked- And where did the evil that got into the hearts of men come from? Who made the evil that COULD get in men's hearts?

  TEC said- We have had this discussion before. From their own desires... from wanting something for themselves... more then caring for others or with no care at all for how that effects others. Eventually that desire grows and grows, and eventually entices one to sin.

  To which I ask:

  Where did the ability to have the desire come from? Who created the heart of men such that evil sinful desires COULD enter into men's hearts? Who created the heart of men such that "man could have created evil, himself"?

  See, just long as you can continue to postulate your ideas of why it's man's fault, I'll ALWAYS be able to respond by simply taking your response and pointing the blame back on God for CREATING EVERYTHING, including whatever defect you can imagine that exists in men.

  God wants to take the CREDIT for making humans, but suddenly wants to avoid any RESPONSIBILITY for their being imperfect.

  Hence the finger of blame ALWAYS points back to God, since as the old German saying goes, "It's a poor craftsman indeed who blames his creations for failing to meet his high standards, or who blames his tools for failing to perform". God supposedly made humans, and God's mirror always reveals who the party at fault is when He looks in it.

  LT said-

  Adamah is right that the Jews believed all were designed with the ability to do good or evil. It's called free will. Without the ability to do bad, doing good means nothing.

  And that's the problem with the Christian reading of Adam and Eve being created as "perfect"; Jews don't see it that way, as they accept that God created humans with tendencies to do both good and bad. Of course, that's partly why they don't see the need for Jesus as offering the "perfect" sacrifical atonement to counter "perfect" Adam's sin: they didn't see Adam as being perfect at any time.

  There's MANY MORE reasons Jews reject the doctrines of Christianity, and any reasonable person who bothers to actually look into their reasoning (and they wrote the Torah!) can easily see they have many valid points.

  Adam
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  tec

  Nothing wrong with asking the questions, or having discussions, or even not having the answers... yet. None of us have all the answers.

  One DOES have all the answers though... and if we want to know the Truth, the one to ask is Christ. He does answer... but as He knows is right and in His time. We don't tend to hear what we cannot yet bear though.

  In any case, we can blame others for what we do (as Adam did... he blamed "the woman" and he blamed God for putting the woman there with him to give him the fruit); or we can take responsibility for our own actions and words, not judging if we do not wish to be judged; and forgiving if we wish to be forgiven.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  tec

  Tammy you should have devoted your life to finding a cure for cancer. Your tenacity and inability to even fathom failure would make a big difference. we don't agree on this issue, but that was a honest compliment.

  Lol... I will take it as a compliment then, and thank you for it.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  adamah

  Willmarite said-

  If a person could see all effects of their actions, long term and short term, and internalize this knowledge evil would be a rare thing. So I believe evil has to do with ignorance.

  Welcome to the forum and thread, and I agree evil stems from ignorance, or even a blatant disregard for reality/facts/evidence, AKA willful ignorance.

  Adam
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  adamah

  TEC said-

  One DOES have all the answers though... and if we want to know the Truth, the one to ask is Christ. He does answer... but as He knows is right and in His time. We don't tend to hear what we cannot yet bear though.

  Put up, then: ask Jesus to give you the answer to that scripture I requested, asking about evidence of whetever law you suggest existed between the Divine Prohibition against eating the Forbidden Fruit (Genesis 2), and the Noahide Covenant's restriction against bloodshed (Genesis 9).

  In any case, we can blame others for what we do (as Adam did... he blamed "the woman" and he blamed God for putting the woman there with him to give him the fruit); or we can take responsibility for our own actions and words, not judging if we do not wish to be judged; and forgiving if we wish to be forgiven.

  Irony noted of someone who believes in the Devil and God saying we should take responsibility for our own actions.

  Adam
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  willmarite

  Adamah, thanks for the welcome. So if evil stems from ignorance than the reason we experience evil in our world has to do with where humankind is on the learning curve.

  The first cause, higher power, God or whatever you want to call it of course created us with the ability to be ignorant so therefore created us with the ability to do evil things. In order to learn one had to experiment to see what works. We can see thru out recorded history how mankind has gradually raised their consciousness. As a group we are gradually leaving behind the law of the jungle or the mindset of "might makes right".

  The existence of evil has nothing to do with the lack of ability of the workman (First Cause). We are designed to experiment with our freedom and abilities, how else would we gradually find out what works?
• 

  tec

  Put up, then: ask Jesus to give you the answer to that scripture I requested, asking about evidence of whetever law you suggest existed between the Divine Prohibition against eating the Forbidden Fruit (Genesis 2), and the Noahide Covenant's restriction against bloodshed (Genesis 9).

  You mean ask for you? I don't believe it works that way. You would not believe me, anyway. You have to ask and listen to Him, yourself. But you are not even looking at Him.

  Your crux of this issue, however, is wrong. That it is God's fault that the hearts of men were filled with evil all the time... and because God forgot to declare murder against the law. That does not come from Christ.

  Irony noted of someone who believes in the Devil and God saying we should take responsibility for our own actions.

  Why is that ironic?

  Peace,

  tammy
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  latinthunder

  God did not create evil, and he does not tempt men with evil. Evil... death... the propensity to commit evil... just IS. Darkness/death existed, but did not have a foothold to enter the life that God had separated from the darkness - light being life/christ. Not until Adam granted it entrance by sinning and eating of it. (bringing sin and death into him, and into the world)

  Wow.... you are claiming that "evil" or "darkness" is eternal, like God, and that Christ had a beginning. You have it backwards. Darkness had a beginning and Christ is eternal.

  But yes, I do know a better way. Christ.

  Oh jeez. Learn what Christ is first, THEN preach your "way."

  They could have listened to God, and grown as God taught them (as we can grow as Christ teaches us now )... but they chose another way. The hard way. Same as some children will listen to the moms (or dads) when they are told not to touch something that will hurt them. Depends upon the faith and love the child has for the parent. Most will learn the hard way though.

  I got some bad news for you, there is only the hard way. No pain NO gain.
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  tec

  Christ is the LIGHT. God said... let there be LIGHT. That light is Christ. (Christ... who came FROM God)

  Christ is the Word, the Truth, the Image of God. Did you not earlier ask what is the logos?

  That would be Christ.

  But I would never preach "my" way. What good would that do me or anyone? I am not the life; I cannot give life. Not to others and not to myself.

  Christ is the WAY, the LIFE. So I 'preach' Him.

  I got some bad news for you, there is only the hard way. No pain NO gain.

  No, that is man's way... the way he has chosen.

  But Christ said... I AM THE WAY.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  Comatose

  The devil Is trying to deceive and mislead us.

  God gave me strength and helped me.

  We all need to take responsibility for our actions and not blame god or the devil.

  If you are honest, I'm sure you will see the irony above. :)