My thought on the material blessings aspect I posted on this thread.
Lurkers and Apologists, can you please explain.....
by DATA-DOG 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Monsieur
No. Actually I'm just playing with you, Monsieur. Your "answers" are such non-answers that it's entertaining to repeat them back to you.
Wrong yet again shirley,
you are stating quite the OPPOSITE of what i am answering.
It is what tends to happen when you answer with emotion rather than reason.
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Stand for Pure Worship
from the Scriptures why...
1) Material wealth is a sign of Jehovah's blessing in our modern day.
First off, whoever stated that Jehovah's Witnesses are generally known as people having material wealth? Laughable considering a substantial amount of posters on this forum consider the average JW as being uneducated and/or a window washer. Your question would be better served towards an acolyte of Creflo Dollar or Tammy Swaggart. You know, it amazes me how some ex-JWs view themselves as Rhodes Scholars upon leaving The Truth. They're like, "I read Origin of Species, now I'm enlightened!" Give me a break. Material wealth associated with JWs is for the most part an oxymoron. Now, if you're referring to the WT as having substantial assets, well I won't argue with you. I'm not remotely embarrased by any material provisions they've accumulated. The reason being is, I know that whatever money aquired is being put to good use. That said, your question is really quite, misleading and uninformed. How about, ummm, explain why material resources are of sign of Jehovah's blessing? Now that, would be a more appropriate question. The answer can be ascertained quickly after reviewing accounts found within Nehemiah, 2 Chronicles, 1 Kings, and Acts of the Apostles. There are other accounts, but the simple answers can be found in those records.
Question 2 is simply offensive and not worth entertaining. You're basically mocking the death of good people.
Why Jesus is not your mediator?
Have you ever heard the statement, "too many chiefs, not enough Indians?" Well, let's take it a step further, how about no Indians and all chiefs. Not sensible is it? Your secular work, do you have a boss, or do you not answer to anyone? Better still, nobody answers to you because all the employees are supervisors as well? Madness, right? Well the same would be true if all of mankind were part of the New Covenant arrangement. To better understand this arrangement, one would have to examine Moses' responsibilities as Mediator between the fleshly nation of Israel and Jehovah. He as in fact the chosen mediator between that nation and God. Any who questioned his role paid a dear cost for their insubordination. (Numbers 16; Numbers 12:1, 2, 9, 10)
Ok, so we established Moses' role as being mediator, and it goes without saying that it foreshadowed Jesus' role in the New Covenant. I don't think I need to spell that out for you. Now, let's talk about the time frame leading up to both individuals' roles and the identity of the other parties involved. Moses role as mediator began while the Israelites were still under bondage in Egypt. As a result his role was initially involved only God and the Israelites. Similary Jesus relationship was exclusive to the nation of Israel which was a continuation of Jehovah's relationship with that nation. Not the Babylonians, not the Assyrians, not the Egyptians, no the covenant relationship was strictly with the Israelites. That's the reason why Jesus was so disappointed with Israel's rejection of him.- Exodus 19:5, 6; Luke 13:33, 34.
Now, we've established an Act-I, or a prelude so to speak. What changed? Well after Israel's release from Egyptian bondage, they were joined by some of the very people they were enslaved by and possibly people of other nations as well and were to remember their own plight in a foreign land so as not to treat non-natual Hebrews unfairly.(Ex 23:9; Lev 19:33) However there were still regulations and restrictions placed upon alien residents despite their having to be treated as brothers of the Israelites and under the Law.(Deut 23; Lev 24:22) So there was a subtle difference between Israelites and alien residents. Those same differences forshadowed the differences between those part of the New Covenant and Christians that will comprise the Great Crowd. People often mistake those difference as that being the Gentiles and the Hebrews. They couldn't be more wrong however. True as mentioned earlier, Jesus primary witness was to the Jews. Later, Peter initiated the preaching of the good news to a Gentile. Paul took it to the next level. Still throughout their writings and what Luke recorded, the theme of Spiritual Israel remains present.(Gal 3:26-29; 6:16; Acts 3:25, 26) So any thoughts that the fulfillment of Jesus' words on one flock were fulfilled with the bringing in of the Gentiles, are erroneos.-John 10:16
With all that said, it's quite evident that Jesus covenant was strictly with those who had a heavenly hope as that's the common theme presented within the Christian Greek Scriptures. While there are verses within the Hebrew Scriptures that allude to the earthly hope(Psa 37:9-11), truly the Christian Greek Scriptures don't touch on the other flock until Revelation 7:9, 13 where it talks about "ones that come out of the Great Tribulation." The same way the alien resident benefited from their relationship with natural Israelites, so does the Great Crowd from their support and relationship with the Annointed who are the sole benefactors of the New Covenant.
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Poindexter Lionel Humperdique
Monsieur,
No offense. However, along with AndDontCallMeShirley and Comatose, I too am rather confused as to the meaning of your renderings here on this thread. I now feel much like Tom Hanks in the Movie The Volunteers in this below clip (watch it as it is only 30 seconds in length).
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DATA-DOG
I'm sorry, SFPW. Where does God's word say that the Heavenly calling ended? Remember that Rutherford, the original FDS, had zero scriptural backing for saying that the door closed. Only Jesus has that authority. As far as too many chiefs go..we only have 1 Chief, and that's Jesus until such time as he hand everything back to our Father.
So you said, " People often mistake those difference as that being the Gentiles and the Hebrews. They couldn't be more wrong however." Are you aware that the term Great Crowd of [ other sheep ] does NOT exist in the scriptures? As you say the new conenant is for a heavenly reward, but then Jesus speaks about a Kingdom Covenant also. Have you ever thought about that? Also, you are correct when you say that the theme of the NT is heaven for Christians. Pre-Christians and their hope is another matter, but for Christians there is one hope mentioned. So when did that end?
The scriptures say that Jesus is mediator for all men. The WTBTS contradicts that teaching.
As to material wealth, I am NOT saying it's wrong to be wealthy. I just want to know where God's word teaches that wealth is a sure sign of his favor, especially since the whole system belongs to Satan.
Sorry, I had to edit. So whats wrong with question #2? God makes chickens reproduce after DC's, but he can't stop a molester from getting a child, or protect Sisters who are preaching?
DD
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The Quiet One
Pm for Datadog
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Fernando
Great questions (on page 1), thanks for sharing tornapart.