by BONEZZ 60 Replies latest jw friends
Flipper...Thanks. I know you know what it's like. I printed out the responses for her this afternoon and she loved them. She's telling all her nurses to look at the video. Of course as we all know those "worldly" people we were trained to hate have more love and empathy than the dubbs.
-BONEZZ
And what an "apostate" does in the leaving the JWs is not in any way equivalent to what a JW does by shunning them. The Watchtower tries to spin the narrative that apostates break up families by leaving the truth, but that's utter crap. Apostates are mostly willing to keep good relations with Witness friends and family, it is they who choose to break relationships by choosing to follow Watchtower instructions and shun family members. It is 100% their choice, their responsibility, and their shame.
Pointing out the hurtful and harmful actions of Watchtower followers is not blackmail, it's a public service!
No argument from me SBF. I just do not accept there is any justification for anyone to specifically name individuals. Whether or not we approve of the shunning policy or the way it is enforced is quite different from naming and shaming specific persons for "obeying" their religious beliefs.
There are many threads on this forum in which the organization's use of emotional blackmail is rightly deplored. In my view - and I accept it is "just" my view - the youtube clip is heavy on emotional blackmail in that it raises the issue of 'please see me before I die' . We see this kind of emotionalism for what it is when it is Witnesses using it against disfellowshipped individuals but are more accepting of it when the shoe is on the other foot.
Steve you may feel that way from your point of view...love
you to pieces ....but when you are 93 yrs old.....
there are very few avenues open to you!
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Little or no energy left, almost blind, no power, no pull, no husband,
no friends....mostly all dead, no creds & pretty much invisable!
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Desperate to see a girl she loved all her life ...they shared history
those two .. she needs to be hanging on to those memories with her!
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Don't believe that..... just wait a few years!
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Can't you hear the fear & panic in her voice? I can ....maybe
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you have to be that scared yourself ..... to know.
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Damn the venomous watchtower for teaching hate & shunning!
clarity
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I hear what you're saying clarity and accept I do not know what it would be like to be in my nineties and just wanting contact with a loved grand daughter. I humbly need to make my peace with the OP, despite misgivings!
I accept it is "just" my view - the youtube clip is heavy on emotional blackmail in that it raises the issue of 'please see me before I die' . We see this kind of emotionalism for what it is when it is Witnesses using it against disfellowshipped individuals but are more accepting of it when the shoe is on the other foot.
But again Steve you are making a false equivalency. A JW might claim that a DFed has broken off contact, "as a result of their actions". But that is a lie. Most DFed people would be happy to keep in contact with JW relatives. It's the JWs who decide to break off contact: their choice, their responsibility, their shame.
If any JW has the audacity to employ emotionalism and ask why a DFed relative "broke up the family" there is a simple and truthful reply to that accusation. The DFed person didn't break up the family. The JWs' adherence to the twisted practice of shunning is what broke up the family, simple as that.
Steve ....... I really like you!
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You are something else ....... I respect your opinion for sure,
you certainly did not have to chg it, I just wanted you to understand
what she was going thru..I had to stand up for Mary Lou ... she needs us.
clarity
hey thanks clarity - it's not so much that I've changed my view but my recognizing that the point I perhaps poorly expressed is that any attempt by anyone to publically "reach" a named individual risks accusations of using emotion to make their point. SBF is of course correct in what he points out is the crucial difference between Witnesses' accusations and d'fd individual's accusations: they have very different start and end points. I actually get his point and agree in principle. Yet my point of difference is not being drawn to the notion of publically naming relatives who are still in the organization. At best it's a heartfelt endeavor to reach them (although I am not convinced it's effective - in fact quite
the opposite. And at worst it could be construed as manipulative.You perhaps have made the most compelling point that has sobered my view: I honestly would not know the private heartache of an elderly grandmother who dearly wants to be with her grand daughter for perfectly normal loving reasons. That kind of choked me up when I thought about it. It also got me thinking about my own JW grandparents - all now deceased - would I as a younger Witness have shunned anyone of them had they been disfellowshipped for apostasy? I fear the answer would have been yes - I'm ashamed to admit.
It is midnight ...just winding down....thanks Steve
for reconsidering Mary Lou's predicament.
I think you have great character
clarity
Steve2, I think it's important to call people on their bullshit. The granddaughter should be ashamed, and she has only herself to blame for her behavior. If we don't call out people for poor behavior, they get away with it.
Steve what happened? You're supposed to be becoming a more hardline apostate, and I'm supposed to be a semi-apologist. We swapped roles.
