Well either way, they won't be gods of their own planets...
Marriage In The New World
by Cold Steel 55 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Honesty
cantleave, I am aware that the WTBTS has taught that most of the time since before I was born.
Adam will be resurrected:
October 15, 1920 Watchtower page 316
Adam will NOT be resurrected:
From Paradise Lost to Paradise regained page 236
I just wondered who told Splash "No resurrection for Adam and Eve."
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QC
Resurrected
My view of Eve has changed. Let me know if I'm missing something.
1) Note Eve’s optimism in these two renderings:
Gn 4:1 "And the human [Adam] knows Eve, his wife, and pregnant is she and is bearing Cain. And saying is she, "I acquire a man, Yahweh!" (joy) CLV
- cf. Gn 4:1 "Now Adam had sexual relations with his wife, Eve, and she became pregnant. When she gave birth to Cain, she said, "With the LORD's help, I have produced a man!" (joy) NLT
Why is Eve happy that “Yahweh” gave her Cain (“a man”)? IMO, she’s remorseful for being deceived (used) by Satan and thinks she’s the “woman” in Gen 3:15 and hopes Cain is “her seed” to crush Satan.
- Ge 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he shall crush thy head, and thou shalt crush his heel." Darby
2) Eve is remorseful (note how distraught she is over Abel’s murder):
- Gn 4:25 she gave birth to a son…Seth… [then says] "God granted me another offspring to replace Abel, since Cain murdered him." ISV
She is partial to Abel, and sees Cain the way John and Paul see him:
- 1Jn 3:12 "Not like Cain who was from The Evil One [Satan] and murdered his brother; and why did he murder him? Only because his works were evil and those of his brother were righteous." ABPE
- Jn 8:44 "You are of your father the Devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars." Hol
- Hb 11:4 "By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead." NIV
IMO, Cain adds to her grief and shame. So, with Seth replacing the death of Abel, she continues to feel she possibly is giving birth to the “seed” promised to crush Satan taking away the shame and remorse she got from being deceived.
We hear nothing from Adam. Her remarks recorded, alongside Adam’s silence, tell me a lot about their status with God. It seems Eve, mother of mankind, is on the side of the resurrected righteous.
- Gn 3:20 "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living." AV
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QC
Hi blondie,
How are you generating the yellow quote box?
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NewYork44M
So what about the young brother (sister) who married so he (she) could have sex, and not really for love. Now he (she) is stuck with this idiot for all eternity? Just shoot me now.
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Quarterback
You raised a good point, Bobcat, re "the sons of this system are given in marriage etc..."
I forgot and always overlooked that statement. Another good point that was mentiond was that "it wasn't good for man to live alone, so he made a helper for him, a complement"
So in a human environment, Men and women, are an Entity that is natural and goes along with the perfect divine plan.
Jehovah, also stated a command for man and woman. He stated, " fill this earth and subdue it." So the gift of procreation, and it's desire to do so would reach it's limits in a perfect world. Then what would happen? Would women no longer be a helper to man? or, Would a woman no longer be a complement, or would that union of one flesh terminate? I don't think so. The whole purpose of having both genders is to balance one another. The human society needs balance, even in a perfect state.
Today, the marriage vows end with the statement, "till death do you part". So death annulls a marriage.
The GB is right is saying that they don't know the answer to this ressurrection question. If one is ressurrected to a Spirit creature, then there is one gender, and don't need this couple arrangement to balance human nature. If you are resurrected as a human then you would be incomplete. If that makes any sense, or, if I'm on to something, or maybe it's this rye that is confusing me.
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Cold Steel
Splash: BTW, Adam and Eve don't get a resurrection.
Hmmm...that’s a new one on me. Is this Jehovah's Witness doctrine? And why would they be denied a resurrection? Did not Jesus’ atonement cover their transgression?
One problem I’d have with this belief is that Adam and Eve didn’t just stop worshiping God when they were expelled from the Garden, but continued to have children and teach them the ways of God. It would be inconceivable to me that they would be denied life in the resurrection. After all, they fell so that man could grow and progress, knowing the difference between good and evil, which is an attribute of God that has been passed down through the human race. The apostle Paul teaches that “For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.”
It seems that what Paul was getting at is that yes, Eve sinned, but that she and her posterity could be saved by living God’s commandments.
Carroline77: Those who are resurrected will be like the angels, who are a higher form of life. They do not have animal nature.
My own view is that angels are simply people. Some are people who haven’t yet been born; others are people who have passed through mortality but have not as yet been resurrected. And still others may be mortal (as the word “angels” simply means “sent ones”). John, on Patmos, falls at the feet of an angel he mistakes as his risen Lord. The angel gently rebukes him and helps him to his feet telling him he must not do that. “I am thy fellow servant,” the angel explained, “and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book.” (Rev. 22:9) And David wrote, “When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; what is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.” (Psalm 8)
According to the original text, the word for “angels” is “elohim,” which means “gods.” Translators, understandably, were uncomfortable with this rendition; however, Jesus stunned the Jews by quoting the law:
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? —John 10:31-36
According to the scriptures, God made man in his own image, and John wrote of Jesus:
...whom [the Father] hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high. —Hebrews 1:2-3
If Jesus was resurrected with a tangible body of flesh and bone, as the apostles tell us, and John adds that Jesus is in the “brightness” of the Father’s glory, and the “express image” of the Father’s person, then it appears that Jesus became, in the resurrection, very much like his Father. And if what John teaches us about the faithful saints of God becoming “joint heirs” with Jesus, our potential appears to be virtually limitless. For years in my youth, I was taught that God was a being who was everywhere present, and that he was without form, being neither male nor female. The idea of a Father or Son was strictly metaphor designed to help us understand them.
The idea that Jesus and his apostles and prophets seem to be teaching is that men can become like their fathers in every sense of the word. When we are infants, we have the potential of becoming like our earthly parents, so as Paul teaches, “we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ....” (Romans 8:16-17) If we are joint heirs with Christ, we have, then, potential that is as yet completely unrealized by Jehovah's Witnesses, most of whom think the only thing they are going to inherit is a garden paradise. But if God really is our Father, and we his children, doesn't it stand to reason we would resemble each other, and that we could become like him?
Remember, too, that marriage was instituted by God, and that it was instituted before death came into the world. So in the world to come, is it any better or worse that man should be alone? And why should anyone assume that we end up in the next world as sexless heavenly entities? And will it apply to the “great crowd” who gets to spend the next centillion years getting to know their beautiful garden paradise? (I’d like to see a photo of that!)
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Apognophos
Hmmm...that’s a new one on me. Is this Jehovah's Witness doctrine?
Oh yes. The three people who the Society have been most consistently confident about not getting a resurrection are Adam, Eve, and Judas Iscariot. Adam and Eve won't get a resurrection (so they teach) because they were perfect when they sinned, thus they have no excuse. Being perfect, they were not in need of a ransom and thus it does not apply to them. Judas, of course, sinned against the holy spirit.
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Bobcat
Quarterback:
Concerning future human population expansion, see my post on this thread.
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prologos
observations:
cold steel: "--A&E not sisceptible to death--" if so, why did they need the tree of life to keep living, escape death?
ucantome: right: you can have redundant body parts and think nothing of it. Look at men's breasts. handsom but useless for nursing (unless prompted by hormones). I always used that to convince doubters as to the feasability of asexual resurectees.
splash: good point about the heavenly resurrection talk of Jesus, but
the wt position is that he was talking to people oblivious to a heavenly hope, believers in an earthly "here and now" betterment. so, while the ideas might better fit heaven, it was dealing with an local material problem.
I will be pleasantly surprised if there is any resurrection.
I am from Missouri, the "show me state" on that one.