In the interests of protecting myself from reading all their twaddle, could someone please give me the dummies version (is there any other?) of how they go from this generation being a group to being TWO groups? What possible biblical justification are they giving for this? (Short version please). Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how the generation was even given a start date, all things considered with how they came up with their myriad end dates. Now they have two groups, the generation and the ones they are trying to hang on to until at least 2034 when they come up with another explanation for the delay? (after they have convinced the sheep that they were misunderstanding everything we are reading now).
New 1975? Jan 1st WT 2014
by notsurewheretogo 66 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Apognophos
The point is that the intent of the overlap was NEVER to give themselves decades or even hundreds of years. They quickly realised that the original article was ambiguous enough for there to be confusion and they have tried on several occasions to readjust things. I have sat through 3 talks at a DC and two CAs where this has been discussed. The one at Brighton DC was handled by a Bethel speaker and he was absolutely clear that the ones in the latter overlap would be advancing in years (around their 60s) now. They have also revisited this in the WT.
I would agree this might leave 30 or even more years at the far extent but the implication was clear. Don't think 30 years - think ALOT less.
I disagree that this is a new understanding of the generation (yet again). This is damage limitation on their crazy, madcap and completely illogical explanation from 2010.
I do agree that they never learn. They just know not enough people will follow their gut and leave.
QFT.
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caliber
20yr old, baptized and anointed in 1914. Lives to 80 so dies in 1974.
Overlaps with 20yr old baptized and anointed in 1974. Lives to 80 so dies in 2034.
This means that "this generation" stems from roughly 1894 to 2034 - 140 years long.
1894 .... .........140 years.................... 2034
born 1894 baptised 1914 dies 1974 (group 1 ) 80 years
born 1954 baptised 1974 dies 2034 (group 2 ) 60 years more max
~~~ by Splash
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konceptual99
@DD... (I would put in a quotes box but the stoooopid repy box is only showing a couple of controls on my iPad)
Konceptual99,
Are you saying that you feel they actually believe the end is coming soon, and did not purposely come up with the overlapping teaching to buy time? Do you feel that they really think they are right, and were just a bit off in their timing of events? Are you going with bumbling delusion over cold, calculating deception?
DD
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I think that they think the end is coming. I think they would be happy to voice "what if" concerns within a small circle of trust but they are as convinced as any other dub about the last days. That's bumbing delusion.
On the other hand I think that they make some cold, calculating descions about how they present material to ensure certain priorities are met. These woud include:
- sense of urgency/imminance
- minimise slacking off
- ensure growth and not contraction
- maintain cashflow
- maintain centrallised control and unity of policy implementation
This is control. I doubt they see it as deception but they also have the "theocratic warfare" delusion. They know that they are fighting a battle for hearts and minds amongst an increasingly skeptical population. They know they will lose people to the "world". Rather than change policy to develop a more inclusive theology they accept the collateral damage. The callous side of this is the demonisaton of those that leave to prevent further contamination of those inside.
Do the GB know TTATT and are they deliberately decieving 8 million people just so they can have a nice office by a river (soon to be a lake)? No.
Are they using calculated methods of control to maintain their own delusion? Yes
Hope that answers the question!
k99
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yadda yadda 2
This!!! Nailed it!:
20yr old, baptized and anointed in 1914. Lives to 80 so dies in 1974.
Overlaps with 20yr old baptized and anointed in 1974. Lives to 80 so dies in 2034.
This means that "this generation" stems from roughly 1894 to 2034 - 140 years long.
1894 .... .........140 years.................... 2034
born 1894 baptised 1914 dies 1974 (group 1 ) 80 years
born 1954 baptised 1974 dies 2034 (group 2 ) 60 years more max
Around 2003 a Watchtower study article alluded to a possible parallel between the 120 year generation of Noah's time and the end times since 1914.
Even C T Russell's earliest interpretations of how long the generation is noted it could be 120 years max.
DO MORE TIL '34!
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DATA-DOG
1914 + 120 = 2034 Would they ever be so "brazen" as to teach something like this again? Here is another question about the whole confusing "generation" teaching. First a comment from the Revelation book:
Chapter 38, page 277 par. 17
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17 At this point in Jehovah’s timetable, when the sealing of the 144,000 has reached completion, the angels release the four winds of the great tribulation. (Revelation 7:1-3) First, judgment is executed on harlotlike Babylon the Great. The victorious Christ next moves on quickly to Armageddon to destroy the rest of Satan’s organization on earth and, finally, to abyss Satan and his demons. (Revelation 19:11–20:3) If any anointed ones still survive on earth, they will doubtless enter into their heavenly reward soon after Christ completes his conquest and will join their fellow members of the bride class. Then, at God’s due time, the marriage of the Lamb can take place! Since the WTBTS teaches that the GT begins with the final sealing of the 144,000, how does this fit into the "generation" teaching? The "END" has nothing to do with who's lives overlap and when, but depends upon the final sealing of the 144,000. Why would the deaths of all the oldest members of the JW "anointed" have any impact on the start of the GT? If anything, encouraging all those who feel that they should partake to do so, perhaps by admitting that all Christians are included new covenant, would hasten the final sealing. Is there ANYONE who would have a vested interest in postponing the final sealing? Why would the GB want to do this? Don't they want the GT to start?! DD
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outsmartthesystem
"How on earth could the average JW explain this convoluted teaching? I don't even understand what they are trying to say anymore......"
I truly believe this is exactly their plan. Get rid of the thinkers and fence dwellers. The majority of JWs are completely captive to the concept. So what do you do? Muddle the concept as much as possible. Make it so that they cannot understand it let alone explain it. If they cannot understand it or explain it......yet they unwaveringly accept it as "truth"......then....you have a lifetime soldier you can count on.
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DATA-DOG
Outsmartthesystem, good point. They don't want anyone reasoning on anything, or asking questions. An intelligent JW is one who recites the GB "ideas" with better inflection than the rest of the congregation.
I need to edit my last comment, as it posted strangely.. I had 1 giant run-on paragraph!
1914 + 120 = 2034 Would they ever be so "brazen" as to teach something like this again? Here is another question about the whole confusing "generation" teaching. First a comment from the Revelation book:
Chapter 38, page 277 par. 17
"17 At this point in Jehovah’s timetable, when the sealing of the 144,000 has reached completion, the angels release the four winds of the great tribulation. (Revelation 7:1-3) First, judgment is executed on harlotlike Babylon the Great. The victorious Christ next moves on quickly to Armageddon to destroy the rest of Satan’s organization on earth and, finally, to abyss Satan and his demons. (Revelation 19:11–20:3) If any anointed ones still survive on earth, they will doubtless enter into their heavenly reward soon after Christ completes his conquest and will join their fellow members of the bride class. Then, at God’s due time, the marriage of the Lamb can take place!"
( End of quote)
MY COMMENT:
Since the WTBTS teaches that the GT begins with the final sealing of the 144,000, how does this fit into the "generation" teaching? The "END" has nothing to do with who's lives overlap and when, but depends upon the final sealing of the 144,000. Why would the deaths of all the oldest members of the JW "anointed" have any impact on the start of the GT? If anything, encouraging all those who feel that they should partake to do so, perhaps by admitting that all Christians are included new covenant, would hasten the final sealing. Is there ANYONE who would have a vested interest in postponing the final sealing? Why would the GB want to do this? Don't they want the GT to start?!
DD
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konceptual99
@Outsmart & @DD - agree totally that removing the thinkers is a justifiable outcome.
The WTS promotes a culture where any dissension or even honest questioning is seen as weakness and/or a proud spirit of independant - negative traits and freely open to judgemental attitudes from inside the congregation.
This acts as a peer pressure based control mechanism and therefore any that do have the courage of their convictions are easy dismissed by the group and their reasoning easily dismissed.
This collateral damage is acceptable to the WTS as it's a very simple way of ensuring the survival of their illogical ideas amongst the majprity.
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Finkelstein
The reason JWs are so pliable and easy to manipulate is that the WTS. instills an assertive amount of fear into their heads
as a controlling mechanism to brainwash people. That firstly attracts people to their articles then further locks them in
as a means of sustainability.
They put out the information to feed the flock so to speak and the flock gullibility eats it up and says "Thank You".
The inherent responsibility of the GB head writers is to keep the readership of their literature intact and on a continuing basis.
Most people know what the WTS. puts out is commercialized and fraudulent bullshit but there are some who simply don't.