cantleave had a valid opinion. Is God like a pencil-pointless? (page 3)

braincleaned

Monsieur, even as a symbol, what are the virtues of the Abrahamic God? I don't see symbolism changing anything as to his character.

adamah nails it. A study of logic and what constitutes a fallacy is essential for debate. Without the tools of reason and logic, anything goes.

SOOO on spot, as usual Terry!

Monsieur

I stated that God is a SYMBOL.

That's flat-out wrong.

adamah,

so if god is NOT a symbol, what the heck is he???

lol, see, this is why people like kate are confused.

Caedes

you alluded to 'intellectual dishonesty', who could be more intellectual than Galileo? What was believed about the solar system was thought of as ABSOLUTE truth (not mere interpretation as WE are discussing here), and he proceeded to be 'intellecutally dishonest' regardless, and it started with an uncommon idea.

Monsieur,

I think you do not understand the meaning of the phrase intellectual dishonesty. Galileo was not in any way shape or form being intellectually dishonest in his presentation or understanding of the nature of our solar system. Intellectual dishonesty is leaving out facts and observations that do not fit with your hypothesis. Galileo didn't do this, the evidence pointed to the fact that the earth revolved around the sun and he insisted this was the case despite the fact that his honesty cost him greatly. It is simply appalling that you would try to twist this fact and claim he was being dishonest.

there is no record of ANYONE having seen any of these things...yet we accept that they are literal?

I don't think we have to accept that any of those things are literal.

LOGIC compells me to accept that God is not a person, bur rather a SYMBOL or a representation of something else. And again, the Bible answers the very question of what God is suppose to symbolize.

Putting the cart before the horse if you can't define what god is. Why would you accept answers from the bible?

It is intellectually-dishonest to move goalposts by redefining 'God' to mean power, justice, wisdom and love: all of those words are those concepts that already have commonly-accepted definitions

let's stress the words above 'commonly-accepted'.

The comment from Adamah works perfectly well without the phrase 'commonly accepted'. If you have redefined god to be those particular words then have you started replacing the word love with god, when you get home to your significant other do you say "I god you"? If you don't then clearly you accept Adamah's assertion that those words are already defined.

Caedes

so if god is NOT a symbol, what the heck is he???

Non-existant. Taking the entire universe and adding god to it just makes the whole thing more complicated. So just whip out Occam's razor and problem solved.

adamah

Thanks for the assist, Caedes!

Monseiur asked-

so if god is NOT a symbol, what the heck is he??? lol, see, this is why people like kate are confused.

God is an idea, a concept, a hypothesis. God is not visible or tangible, so NOT a symbol (which is visible, and stands for something else). But as an idea, there's no proof of his existence or anything to detect with our perceptive senses, OTHER THAN the accounts of those who've imagined him in the past and left writings that we can examine (eg the Bible).

When someone says 'God' on an ex-JW site, it's a safe assumption they're not referring to a Hindu God, but to Jehovah, the Abrahamic God claimed to exist in the Hebrew and Christian Bible.

Adam

Monsieur

caedes

Intellectual dishonesty is leaving out facts and observations that do not fit with your hypothesis.

i did not do this either. however, adamah believed i did. hence the example.

Putting the cart before the horse if you can't define what god is. Why would you accept answers from the bible?

actually, i've been defining God, as a Symbol. of what? well, of love for example.

You are separating The comment from Adamah works perfectly well without the phrase 'commonly accepted'. If you have redefined god to be those particular words then have you started replacing the word love with god, when you get home to your significant other do you say "I god you"? If you don't then clearly you accept Adamah's assertion that those words are already defined.

by using the phrase 'commmonly accepted' adamah confirmed that terms have their pre-conditioned definition.

but please remember that i am stating that God is a SYMBOL, a symbol representing many things and possible open to various interpretations. A symbol can be a synonym, which is what you allude to when using the example of 'i god you'.

but when the Bible states that God is Love, it is conveying the idea of love, just like a symbol conveys an idea or a concept, not necessarily a literal synonym.

Non-existant

except, Love does in fact exist. as well as wisdom, good and wholesomeness, loyalty.

cantleave

it still would rely on the comparison to pencils that lack points,

What I actually wrote was "a broken pencil"

Adam do you spend your real life pontificating over vacuous semantics, or is it just an online thing?

cantleave

Did you read the article on my blog?

Sorry I didn't - I find your writing style too verbose.

adamah

Adam asked- Did you read the article on my blog?

Cantleave answered: Sorry I didn't - I find your writing style too verbose.

Yeah, it shows, and is especially ironic, being that you just pointed out:

Adam said: it still would rely on the comparison to pencils that lack points,

Cantleave said: What I actually wrote was "a broken pencil"

Most of us accept that a pencil that lacks a point would likely be a 'broken pencil' (unless you're tediously mentioning the case of a new pencil that hasn't yet been sharpened....)

So who's needlessly verbose, arguing just to quibble over unimportant points?

Cantleave asked: Adam do you spend your real life pontificating over vacuous semantics, or is it just an online thing?

I repeat: So who's needlessly verbose, arguing just to quibble over unimportant points?

You're clearly hijacking the thread with the OT ad hominems: if you want to do so, please start another thread. I won't play along here...

Adam

Monsieur

God is an idea, a concept, a hypothesis. God is not visible or tangible, so NOT a symbol (which is visible, and stands for something else).

A symbol is an object that represents, stands for, or suggests an idea, visual image, belief, action, or material entity. Symbols take the form of words, sounds, gestures, or visual images and are used to convey ideas and beliefs. For example, a red octagon may be a symbol for "STOP". On a map, a picture of a tent might represent a campsite. Numerals are symbols for numbers. Personal names are symbols representing individuals. A red rose symbolizes love and compassion. - from wikipedia

states here that symbols take form of 'words, sounds, gestures', none of which are visible or tangible.

cantleave had a valid opinion. Is God like a pencil-pointless?

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