It is a bird, it is a plane, no it is super pioneer:
Look, Up in the Air...It's a Bird, it's a Plane...No, It's a JW!!
by Cold Steel 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jgnat
From what I gather, Witnesses will walk. They haven't thought through the implications.
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jam
I thought JW's were bat sh--t crazy but after reading some of the beliefs of
Mormons, Wow. Please tell me these are not still the belief of Mormons today.
1) Sports should not be played on Sunday.
2) TV or movies should not be viewed on Sunday (except Church or "happy media".
3) Children should not be allowed to play with friends on Sunday.
4) If you have dark skin and convert to Mormonism, you skin will begin to lighten/ whiten.
Hell my son is dating a Mormon, I need to inform him. (He is black,LOL).
5) The Garden of Eden was in Missouri when Adam and Eve was kicked out.
6) All Saints are to return to Missouri before Jesus second coming, some believe this
exodus back to Missouri would be on foot.
7) Two LDS Elders or Missionaries will stand and protect the city of Jerusalem during
Armageddon, spoken of in Rev.
8) 3 Nephites still rome the earth from Christ's visit to the America's blessed by
him to not experience death until his second coming.
9) Satan has power over the oceans, lakes and rivers which is why LDS missionaries
are not allowed to swim.
10) Cremation will make being resurrected harder having to recollect all of your
Atoms/molecules from where ever they were spread.
Cold Steel, please tell me this is not the teaching of the LDS today.
If this is their teaching today, Oh man, JW's are not so nutty.
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Cold Steel
Well, I'm not sure about the implications of walking, myself. It doesn't seem as fun as flying. I always thought if I were going to do a movie about IRON MAN, I would open it with Iron Man streaking across the ocean just a few feet off the surface with a series of close-ups and subjective shots of the water ripping past the camera at incredible speeds. I've always figured there was a better way of getting around than just walking. I remember a professor of mine who read from some ancient religious texts that spoke of countless worlds thoughout the universe, and the resurrected beings would be able to visit these worlds at will, for they would all be under the Father's direction and control. They speculated that these kingdoms would be many and varied and that beings from those worlds would be able to visit ours. But they didn't speak in terms of ships, but of instantaneous travel via thought. They had quite the imaginations.
One of the quotations I remember was incredible. It was, as far as I can recall, "Everything is a system in the midst of like systems." It seems to apply to astrophysics and microphysics and it was what gave me the thought that our universe might be a universe in the midst of like universes. The thing that really blows my mind is that space seems to have a shape to it. What might be outside the bounds of that shape? Who knows? But our minds are incredibly ill-equipped to deal with what's out there.
The apostle John states that in the resurrection, the elect will receive the same resurrection as Christ and that they will be co-heirs with Christ. Thus, everything that the Father has will be given to them. I suspect that the next life will be quite a bit more complex than we have any idea. Certainly better than living in a Garden. Bit if I was going to be living in a garden, why not hope for the best. When I read Kyria Abraham's book, I'M PERFECT, YOU'RE DOOMED, I was a bit taken back when she admitted to dreaming about whose house she could move into once Jehovah killed everyone in the big-A. That's what got me thinking about what JWs really expect after the balloon goes up. If people can debate the blood issue for three hours, why not speculate on the really cool stuff you might be able to do with a perfect, indestructable resurrected body?
Years ago I recall reading a book called, THE PEOPLE, by Zenna Henderson. They were from another planet and were human in appearance. But they all could levitate (some more than others), some were healers, others could make force fields. It was made into a movie with William Shatner. One Amazon review wrote: "The People are too real. I base most of my beliefs and my life on this book and the other books about the People. It has helped me with raising my children and with handling all of lifes issues." Anyway, I read all of her books in the series.
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Jeffro
jgnat:
From what I gather, Witnesses will walk.
Silly jgnat. They'll have tractors and bulldozers and wheelbarrows to get around in.
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Etude
I actually saw a video of Mitt Romney on a jet skii. I imagine he's fallen off that thing more than once. So, I take it he swims. Also, I can't imagine that he was wearing that funny underware under his swim suit. Sooooooooooo.... Does that mean that, like the JWs and other religions, they do what's convenient at the time? Guess how I would answer that question.
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rawe
Hi Cold Steel,
"At the time the Book of Mormon came forth, no gold, brass or other metal records had been discovered."
There simply is no physical evidence the Book of Mormon is any older than when it appeared in the 1830s. Do you know of any? The existence of the KJV text in the Book of Mormon is not easily dismissed either. The production of the KJV in 1611 was a non-trivial exercise. I'm sure if the King James translators could see several consectutive chapters of their translation of Isaiah plagerized into Nephi they would rightly complain.
A further irony between the two faiths orbits around the divine name "Jehovah."
The KJV translators translated most Hebrew words into the equivalent 17th century English words. But in one special case, they decided to substitute rather than translate and that was... you guessed it... the divine name YHWH came out as LORD in English, rather than Jehovah. And since the divine name appears so many times in the OT, the KJV translators effectively signed nearly every page of their work. However, in one case in Isaiah faced with a double form of the divine name they translated Jah Jehovah as LORD Jehovah. See 2 Nephi 22:2 compared to Isaiah 12:2.
This of course is only the start of the problems. Surely one is left to wonder why a Greek word like "Christ" appears in a text that should have no Greek influence. The name Timothy also has this problem (3 Nephi 19:4).
When I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses I often would go online and discuss the LDS faith on Usenet a.r.m group. It was sort of like a safe proxy to explore my own faith. At the time I concluded we Witnesses had a more solid basis for our faith. At least the Bible is an authentically old collection of books with many aspects of verifiable historical settings. Since leaving the Witnesses and realizing how foolish some of my ideas were, such accepting Genesis creation and flood accounts as real history, my views on this have shifed. I would now argue that so much more is involved in a life-emcompassing faith like Jehovah's Witnesses and Latter-day Saints, that problems with faith claims wind up being easily dismissed at the first bit of apologetics we read, because the alternative would be world-shattering.
Cheers,
-Randy
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Cold Steel
Mormon Side Bar
I should have my own show. To quickly address some issues. Most of the following is just nonsense. And a few aren't nonsense but are contrived to make them appear nonsensical.
1) Sports should not be played on Sunday.
Yes, "should not" is the operative phrase here. Many Mormons do play on the Sabbath and I think even BYU plays. Technically, one should also not work on the Sabbath, but reserve it for the worship of God and for serving one's fellow man.
2) TV or movies should not be viewed on Sunday (except Church or "happy media").
Well, I don't know what "happy media" is. Sounds like a contradiction in terms. But if you refer to religious works, yes, the church encourages that. But again, how is this different from what the Bible teaches in regards to the Sabbath? I watch TV every Sunday and I haven't started growing horns yet.
3) Children should not be allowed to play with friends on Sunday.
Crappola.
4) If you have dark skin and convert to Mormonism, you skin will begin to lighten/ whiten.
As Dr. Hugh Nibley, professor of ancient scripture and one of my old professors, put it:
With the Arabs, to be white of countenance is to be blessed and to be black of countenance is to be cursed; there are parallel expressions in Hebrew and Egyptian. And what of Lehi's people? It is most significant that the curse against the Lamanites is the very same as that commonly held in the East to blight the sons of Ishmael, who appear to the light-skinned people of the towns as "a dark and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations...an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety," etc. (1 Nephi 12:23; 2 Nephi 5:24).
It is noteworthy that all the descendants of the Book of Mormon Ishmael fall under the curse (Alma 3:7), as if their Bedouin ancestry predisposed them to it. The Book of Mormon always mentions the curse of the dark skin in connection with and as part of a larger picture: "After they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people," etc. "Because of the cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people...and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey" (2 Nephi 5:24). The statement that "God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them" (2 Nephi 5:21) describes the result, not the method, which is described elsewhere. Thus we are told (Alma 3:13, 14, 18) that while the fallen people "set the mark upon themselves," it was none the less God who was marking them: "I will set a mark upon them," etc. So natural and human was the process that it suggested nothing miraculous to the ordinary observer, and "the Amlicites knew not that they were fulfilling the words of God when they began to mark themselves...it was expedient that the curse should fall upon them" (Alma 3:18).
Here God places his mark on people as a curse, yet it is an artificial mark which they actually place upon themselves. The mark was not a racial thing but was acquired by "whosoever suffered himself to be led away by the Lamanites" (Alma 3:10); Alma moreover defines a Nephite as anyone observing "the tradition of their fathers" (Alma 3:11). Which makes the difference between Nephite and Lamanite a cultural, not a racial, one.
Does this also apply to the dark skin? Note that the dark skin is never mentioned alone but always as attending a generally depraved way of life, which also is described as the direct result of the curse. When the Lamanites become "white" again, it is by living among the Nephites as Nephites, i.e., adopting the Nephite way of life (3 Nephi 2:15—16). The cultural picture may not be the whole story of the dark skin of the Lamanites, but it is an important part of that story and is given great emphasis by the Book of Mormon itself. There is nowhere any mention of red skin, incidentally, but only of black (or dark) and white, the terms being used as the Arabs use them.
Since the Book of Mormon is the product of a Middle East background, from a prophet who likely ministered to Arabic peoples, it's quite understandable that cultural elements crept in. You're judging a reference made by an Israelite prophet at about 600 B.C. by today's standards. The Bible itself speaks of curses of black skin, so the Book of Mormon, which comes from the same culture, shouldn't be judged too harshly.
Hell my son is dating a Mormon, I need to inform him. (He is black, LOL).
Well, there may be hope for you yet!5) The Garden of Eden was in Missouri when Adam and Eve was kicked out.
True. At the time, though, all the landmass was one and was not divided until the days of Peleg. After the flood, the ark landed in what is now Turkey, very far from where it lifted off. We only know the location because of revelation. People mock it because it's modern day Missouri, but thousands of years ago, it was just part of a land mass. The same people who mock the Mormons have no problem with speculating the Garden was in Babylon or Africa. What's the difference?
6) All Saints are to return to Missouri before Jesus second coming, some believe this exodus back to Missouri would be on foot.
No, only a portion of the saints. A 12-echelon temple will be erected there, while the Jews will build a temple in Jerusalem. One of our prophets said he wouldn't be surprised if, given the tribulations of the time, whether we would have to make the trip by foot, but it was speculation. If this country is ever hit with an electro-magnetic pulse, from either the sun or a low-yield atomic weapon detonated in the upper atmosphere, a lot of people will be walking a lot of places. Hopefully, that won't happen.
7) Two LDS Elders or Missionaries will stand and protect the city of Jerusalem during Armageddon, spoken of in Rev. 11.
John does speak of two prophets who will be raised up to the Jews just before the battle of Armageddon. Since these prophets will be called and ordained by those holding the keys of authority in this dispensation, you can take your pick. If the Catholics are right, the two prophets will be Catholic!
8) 3 Nephites still rome the earth from Christ's visit to the America's blessed by him to not experience death until his second coming.
Many people have been translated since the world began. Enoch was one, Moses, Elijah and the apostle John. For story, click here.
9) Satan has power over the oceans, lakes and rivers which is why LDS missionaries are not allowed to swim.
Crapola.
10) Cremation will make being resurrected harder having to recollect all of your atoms/molecules from whereever they were spread.
Crapola. I plan to be cremated myself.
Cold Steel, please tell me this is not the teaching of the LDS today.
Consider yourself told. Keep in mind that you can make anything sound bizarre, weird, outlandish by presenting it in a stilted way. It's like Bill Mayer and his yukking it up over the "talking snake" in the Garden of Eden. For years, evangelicals yanked my chain about Mulek, the son of King Zedekiah, mentioned in the Book of Mormon. All the king's sons were killed, they said. Proof that the Book of Mormon is a fraud. Now, however, the tables have been turned. Seems the king did indeed have a son named MLK, which is really the same name sans vowels. Archeologists in Israel have even found his royal seal. Mulek is not mentioned in the Bible, but he is mentioned by the Book of Mormon. In fact, he was said to have been led to the New World, and many of our scholars believe he was brought here by Phoenician sailors. One, because they had a strong trading relationship with Zedekiah and, two, because the main river in the Book of Mormon was called "Sidon," which was a Phoenician city. There are dozens of evidences coming to light. If the Book of Mormon were false, the more we learn, the more it could be proven a fraud. Instead, it's just the opposite. The more we learn, the more plausible it becomes.
Now kindly let us stay on topic. I didn't bring up Mormonism, you guys did. If you want to communicate with me, please send me a PM and I will answer them as I'm able.
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Jeffro
Cold Steel:
1) Sports should not be played on Sunday.
Yes, "should not" is the operative phrase here. Many Mormons do play on the Sabbath and I think even BYU plays.What kind of numpties think the Sabbath is on Sunday anyway?! (The answer to that question is sun worshippers.) Sabbath = Sabbato = Saturday
5) The Garden of Eden was in Missouri when Adam and Eve was kicked out.
True.No. Not remotely true. That's just stupid. 'Adam and Eve' are fictitious, and all humans can be traced genetically to Africa and the Middle East.
Mormons really believe this shite? They make JW beliefs seem almost sane. It's always funny when someone comes along to 'defend' their 'entirely rational' religion by stating things that are just as irrational as the 'myths'.
