Look, Up in the Air...It's a Bird, it's a Plane...No, It's a JW!!

by Cold Steel 64 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Randy: Surely one is left to wonder why a Greek word like “Christ” appears in a text that should have no Greek influence. The name Timothy also has this problem (3 Nephi 19:4).

    The answer is not complicated. The Book of Mormon is a translation into English. “Christ” is understood in English to be “Messiah” or “Anointed One.” If Smith had used the word “Messiah,” it would have been a Hebrew term, not Greek. The original language in the Book of Mormon is said to be a short form of Egyptian. In 1830, none of these short forms were known, but now we know they existed in 600 B.C. In fact, the reformed versions were the most popular at that time, coming just before the Babylonian conquest when the link between Egypt and Jerusalem were at their strongest. Since the translation was from an ancient language to modern English, the only thing one needs to be concerned about is whether the translation was accurate; and we maintain it is.

    Regarding names, again, Dr. Nibley explains:

    The occurrence of the names Timothy and Lachoneus in the Book of Mormon is strictly in order, however odd it may seem at first glance. Since the fourteenth century B.C. at latest, Syria and Palestine had been in constant contact with the Aegean world, and since the middle of the seventh century Greek mercenaries and merchants, closely bound to Egyptian interests (the best Egyptian mercenaries were Greeks), swarmed throughout the Near East. Lehi’s people...could not have avoided considerable contact with these people in Egypt and especially in Sidon, which Greek poets even in that day were celebrating as the great world center of trade. It is interesting to note in passing that Timothy is an Ionian name, since the Greeks in Palestine were Ionians (hence the Hebrew name for Greeks: “Sons of Javanim”), and—since “Lachoneus” means “a Laconian”—that the oldest Greek traders were Laconians, who had colonies in Cyprus (BM Akish) and of course traded with Palestine.

    What kind of numpties think the Sabbath is on Sunday anyway?! (The answer to that question is sun worshippers.) Sabbath = Sabbato = Saturday.

    Nope. Sabbath = Hebrew šabb³t = š³bat = to rest = Sunday.

    Saturday’s sabbath was changed to the first day of the week Sabbath = Sunday. This was confirmed to the church by revelation.

    That’s just stupid. ‘Adam and Eve’ are fictitious, and all humans can be traced genetically to Africa and the Middle East.

    You mean that's where we jumped out of the trees and began walking upright?

    Mormons really believe this shite? They make JW beliefs seem almost sane. It’s always funny when someone comes along to ‘defend’ their ‘entirely rational’ religion by stating things that are just as irrational as the ‘myths’.

    Oh, yes, I'm sure about that. Everyone thinks their own crap doesn't stink, and there's no exception of that here. Especially that dark matter stuff scientists promise us is out there. But it's invisible, we have no way of catching it or examining it. Still, I believe in it.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Cold Steel:

    Nope. Sabbath = Hebrew šabb³t = š³bat = to rest = Sunday.
    Saturday’s sabbath was changed to the first day of the week Sabbath = Sunday.

    No. That's rubbish, and entirely false etymology. There is in fact no etymological connection between "to rest" and "Sunday".

    This was confirmed to the church by revelation.

    Of course it was... Because 'revelation' is entirely verifiable and not at all fabricated. Are you really that gullible? Sunday was adopted by Roman Christianity instead of Saturday to make an easier transition for the conversion of sun-worshipping pagans, and probably to be seen as different from Judaism.

    You mean that's where we jumped out of the trees and began walking upright?

    You're just further demonstrating your ignorance. Crack a book some time.

    Especially that dark matter stuff scientists promise us is out there. But it's invisible, we have no way of catching it or examining it. Still, I believe in it.

    And now you're comparing religious delusions with scientific research. Hilarious.

    Come on! Are those really your serious answers? Or are you just trying for laughs at your own expense?!

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Outlaw: Other Odd Mormon Beliefs

    Congratulations on the lamest post of the month! You managed to get...let's see...oh, yes...uh, only ONE of these correct!

    Dinosaur fossils are to test our faith, and likely came from matter left over from past destroyed planets that were used/recycled to create Earth.

    Nope. Not so. We have many doctrines that others don't have, such as belief in the premortal existence of mortal spirits, but no one I know believes that garbage about dinosaur bones. It's not Mormon doctrine, but comes from the radical Protestent teachings. If dinosaurs lived in an earth, they would have been resurrected on that Earth. All animals on all planets gain resurrection just as the animals we see on Earth.

    God is a resurrected, extra terrestrial, exalted human male who lives on a planet near a star called Kolob.

    Here's what the book states:

    AND I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees. And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it. And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.

    And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord's time, according to the reckoning of Kolob. And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.

    And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.

    See Book of Abraham, chapter 3 in Pearl of Great Price..

    The Holy Ghost goes to bed at midnight, so all dates, sleepovers, or other activities by youth or single people need to end by midnight or else you won't have protection or guidance against the temptations of the devil.

    Crapola.

    There are people living on the moon. LINK They dress much like Quakers and they are tall, many standing seven feet tall or more. One day we will send missionaries to teach them the gospel.

    Crapola. The old moonmen thing is pretty old and only appears in the urban legends section. It's only source comes from the diary of a kid who was 11 years old at the time he met the prophet. No one else heard Joseph Smith make the remark, and it most certainly is a very tall story by any standard!

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    Cold Steel:

    Congratulations on the lamest post of the month!

    You won that honour when you claimed that "to rest" = Sunday and when you suggested that human evolution = 'jumping out of the trees'.

    no one I know believes that garbage about dinosaur bones. It's not Mormon doctrine, but comes from the radical Protestent teachings. If dinosaurs lived in an earth, they would have been resurrected on that Earth. All animals on all planets gain resurrection just as the animals we see on Earth.

    Do you actually read your own comments. Basically you're saying, "No, we don't believe that crazy stuff. We just believe this other completely crazy stuff." This is probably even worse than the JW claim that they're not "creationists" because some creationists believe something slightly different to them.

    You managed to get...let's see...oh, yes...uh, only ONE of these correct! ...
    God is a resurrected, extra terrestrial, exalted human male who lives on a planet near a star called Kolob.

    Seriously?! That's the one you're going with that he got 'right'? You would have sounded less crazy going with the dinosaur thing.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    All animals on all planets gain resurrection just as the animals we see on Earth.

    Which planets would those be?!..

    .........................................................................

    "And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it. And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob"

    ...........................................................................

    Any relation to Sponge Bob?!..

    ................................................  photo mutley-ani1.gif...OUTLAW

  • rawe
    rawe

    Hi Cold Steel,

    "The answer is not complicated. The Book of Mormon is a translation into English. “Christ” is understood in English to be “Messiah” or “Anointed One.” If Smith had used the word “Messiah,” it would have been a Hebrew term, not Greek."

    But is there an even less complicated answer? Searching for the most economical answer is a great way to uncover the underlying truth. Of course there are always ways to "explain" things that sort of sound right. What I've been told (please object and correct as needed) is Joseph Smith claimed he translated much of the work by peering to a hat and letters one at a time would appear to float in the air. If he thus saw C, h, r, i, s and t, what else was he to do? Disobey the spirit? Likewise when Sun Myung Moon received the Divine Principal there little a critic could say to convince a member it has issues -- because their arguments would go back to unverifiable claims of the faith.

    The Book of Mormon is not a translation of anything. There is just no evidence of this outside the claims made by Joseph Smith. The first Book of Mormon that appeared was in faux 17th century English in the 1830s. Thus the most economical way to explain "Christ" and "Timothy" is Smith, being young and unschooled in ancient language, would not have known the source language, but wanted his work to sound like the Bible, which he likely equated with the KJV itself. When the Book of Mormon uses the word "Bible" and "hour" how is Smith to know he is creating an anachronisms with setting? When he includes the Lord's Prayer (3 Nephi 13:13) how is Smith to know in his day, the words "For thine is the kingdom , and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen" was never originally in the Bible, but a later addtion? He doesn't, so just adds them from the KJV source he believed was correct.

    Cheers,

    -Randy

    ps. I'm not sure what you're point is about "Messiah" vs "Christ." I was pretty sure both words appear in the Book of Mormon. So I checked, they do, see 2 Nephi 25:16, where both words appear in the verse.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Well, you guys have been busy, and there's too much here to respond to, but I'll try to hit a few before turning in.

    First, do you think I'm making this stuff up on the Sabbath? Behold, from the American Heritage Dictionary. And yes, the Mormons claim revelation, and a number of places in those revelations, the Lord called Sunday both "The Lord's Day" and the "Sabbath." Think as you wish concerning those revelations, or Joseph Smith.

    Regarding continental drift, you might be interested to know that Joseph Smith was one of the earliest proponents of that theory. I have no idea when it occurred, but the real question was whether the Garden of Eden could have been in the landmass that is now Missouri? Well, the real issue is whether the Garden of Eden was anywhere, ever? Since if there is no Adam, there is no need of Jesus, then we hold that yes, there was an Adam and there was an Eden. My point is that Missouri is no more or less ridiculous than any other place in the world. If anyone would know where it was, it would be God. So Missouri? Africa? Babylon? Who cares?

    Randy, your views are well stated; however, touching on translation, a translation is just taking the meaning of one document and changing it into a language that can be read by those who don't know the original. If the Book of Mormon is an actual historical document, as we claim, then the volume has been translated correctly. Again, Joseph Smith never needed to produce such a document to gain credibility for restoring the church. He could have saved a lot of trouble by just claiming the revelations. And as for the belief that the Book of Mormon prophets taught one thing and that doctrines later revealed more advanced doctrines, yes, that's true. Like the New Testament, the Book of Mormon was a record of the fundamental gospel taught to man. But it was the Doctrine & Covenants that revealed the doctrines lost over time. Plus, the Book of Mormon also revealed quite a background of necessary doctrines. For example, some critics argue that the Book of Mormon can't be true because its prophets offer up sacrifices, yet there is no evidence of Levites being present. But Alma 13 describes the presence of the higher priesthood, termed the Melchizedek priesthood, which held the keys of the lower priesthood and, hence, the authority. Many things -- technical things -- that Joseph Smith had to keep up with, and this was just one of them.

    Finally, words like "Bible" and "hour" are not anachonisms. A bible is simply a collection of books, scrolls or codices, and an hour is simply a segment of time. If you view the book as a translation, you'll understand it more fully if you don't get hung up in the technicalities. It's not a translation in the same sense the Bible is. If the text said "King James Version of the Bible," that would be one thing. But the prophets knew that a bible -- that is, a small collection of books -- would be used in our day as our canon of scripture, and they called them whatever the Hebrew or reformed Egyptian words were appropriate.

  • barry
    barry

    I remember reading about the book of mormon and according to that book there are coins mentioned that have never been found , there are cities mentioned that have never been found, fauna and flora mentioned that doesn't exist in northern America. In fact not one artifact from north America has ever been sighted that is in the book of mormon.

    The LDS church is a cult in its theology . Barry

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    http://www.exmormon.org/

    Why does this ex-mormon forum read soooo much like JWN?

    Oh yeah - because they are both stupid cults.

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    Why does this ex-mormon forum read soooo much like JWN?-cantleave

    Interesting read. I could get loved ones to have a look at that. It's not apostate in their eyes. Kate xx

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